Talk:Assassination of Jamal Khashoggi/Archive 4
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To add to article
To add to the article: mention of the fire in a barrel outside the Saudi consulate, which was caught on video just after the murder. 173.88.246.138 (talk) 05:51, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
- Citation please? Richard-of-Earth (talk) 10:02, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
- This seems to concern this nytimes story and this video. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 11:22, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
Three defendants who were sentenced to a combined total of 24 years in prison
- Mansour Othman Abahussain;
- Mohammed Saad Alzahrani;
- Mustafa Mohammed Almadani;
- Muflih Shaya Almuslih[1]
References
- ^ "Jamal Khashoggi: Saudis sentence five to death for journalist's murder". BBC News. 23 December 2019. Retrieved 23 December 2019.
The BBC lists them but It does not clarify which of them got 24 years. anyone else knows ? --DBigXrayᗙ Happy Holidays! 16:53, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
- Um, that looks like a list of four? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:38, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
- Martinevans123, actually BBC has listed 6 names 3 released and 3 for 24 years. Qahtani and Asiri I know escaped. that leaves 4 out of 6. I need a source that can help us which 3 out of these 4 are the ones. DBigXrayᗙ Happy Holidays! 18:41, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks. How very confusing. A bit of a puzzle. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:42, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
- Indeed, BBC could have done a better job. Never mind our Wiki will do it properly. :D DBigXrayᗙ Happy Holidays! 18:43, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
- "The court adhered to the official line that the killing was not premeditated." Goodness me. As if there wasn't a huge amount of preparation, including a bone-saw, and international air travel, coordinated hotel stays and dressing-up-to-look-like-Khashoggi-afterwards involved? Staggering. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:07, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
- Indeed. you can call it Kangaroo court, or hogwash or BS whatever. but CNN got the headlines right. "Saudi death sentence wipes MBS's fingerprints in Khashoggi killing"--DBigXrayᗙ Happy Holidays! 19:16, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
- I would wholly agree. Have to be careful to avoid WP:FORUM here, of course.... Gosh, one might even get accused of "WP:RGW" for daring to want to include international criticism. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:26, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
- LoL that comment was funny. Some people are clearly overdoing it. Spencer's suggestion is good though and we should improve the section. As for FORUM, we here are discussing where and how to look for the source to find this info, so some leeway is expected. --DBigXrayᗙ Happy Holidays! 19:31, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
- The editor concerned has now kindly explained the comment. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:20, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
- LoL that comment was funny. Some people are clearly overdoing it. Spencer's suggestion is good though and we should improve the section. As for FORUM, we here are discussing where and how to look for the source to find this info, so some leeway is expected. --DBigXrayᗙ Happy Holidays! 19:31, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
- I would wholly agree. Have to be careful to avoid WP:FORUM here, of course.... Gosh, one might even get accused of "WP:RGW" for daring to want to include international criticism. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:26, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
- Indeed. you can call it Kangaroo court, or hogwash or BS whatever. but CNN got the headlines right. "Saudi death sentence wipes MBS's fingerprints in Khashoggi killing"--DBigXrayᗙ Happy Holidays! 19:16, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
- "The court adhered to the official line that the killing was not premeditated." Goodness me. As if there wasn't a huge amount of preparation, including a bone-saw, and international air travel, coordinated hotel stays and dressing-up-to-look-like-Khashoggi-afterwards involved? Staggering. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:07, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
- Indeed, BBC could have done a better job. Never mind our Wiki will do it properly. :D DBigXrayᗙ Happy Holidays! 18:43, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks. How very confusing. A bit of a puzzle. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:42, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
- Martinevans123, actually BBC has listed 6 names 3 released and 3 for 24 years. Qahtani and Asiri I know escaped. that leaves 4 out of 6. I need a source that can help us which 3 out of these 4 are the ones. DBigXrayᗙ Happy Holidays! 18:41, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
I have attempted to add the trial outcomes to the infobox. Of what charge(s) were the three sentenced to imprisonment convicted? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:26, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- Martinevans123, BBC link above says convicted for "covering up this crime and violating the law" Happy Holidays! ᗙ DBigXrayᗙ 19:33, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- Many thanks. I could't find that in the article. Not sure how that gets expressed on the infobox. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:35, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- Martinevans123, just now, I mentioned it as a quote in the article body. In the infobox, we can summarize in any way we like. I propose "Cover up" . the last part is a bit ambiguous so it can be dropped till we have clarity on the violated laws. Happy Holidays! ᗙ DBigXrayᗙ 19:46, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- Ok. Many thanks. I'm surprised everyone missed this when the item was posted at ITN. I suppose that might be covered in English law by Conspiracy (criminal). Martinevans123 (talk) 20:00, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- Martinevans123, No I am not so sure if Conspiracy is ok here. if you read the BBC article, it gives an impression that the Saudi court/Govt took great pains in trying to convey that this was not a planned incident and it suddenly happened. This way any link to MBS could be denied. So clearly they did not mean conspiracy. I think they are referring to "cover up by destruction of evidence", some crime along that lines. Sorry I am not a legal expert so I can only guess. Happy Holidays! ᗙ DBigXrayᗙ 20:10, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- Ah yes. I forgot that murder was committed "on the spur of the moment". So yes, I guess it might have been disposal of the body and forensic cleaning of the embassy. Or even walking around afterwards dressed up as Khashoggi. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:13, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- Indeed, that is the narrative with which the court case happened. You can blow a thousand holes into this "spur of the moment" story. But my favourite holes are they took a body double and a bone saw, you know, just in case some bones needed a little bit of sawing. --Happy Holidays! ᗙ DBigXrayᗙ 20:49, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- Ah yes. I forgot that murder was committed "on the spur of the moment". So yes, I guess it might have been disposal of the body and forensic cleaning of the embassy. Or even walking around afterwards dressed up as Khashoggi. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:13, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- Martinevans123, No I am not so sure if Conspiracy is ok here. if you read the BBC article, it gives an impression that the Saudi court/Govt took great pains in trying to convey that this was not a planned incident and it suddenly happened. This way any link to MBS could be denied. So clearly they did not mean conspiracy. I think they are referring to "cover up by destruction of evidence", some crime along that lines. Sorry I am not a legal expert so I can only guess. Happy Holidays! ᗙ DBigXrayᗙ 20:10, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- Ok. Many thanks. I'm surprised everyone missed this when the item was posted at ITN. I suppose that might be covered in English law by Conspiracy (criminal). Martinevans123 (talk) 20:00, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- Martinevans123, just now, I mentioned it as a quote in the article body. In the infobox, we can summarize in any way we like. I propose "Cover up" . the last part is a bit ambiguous so it can be dropped till we have clarity on the violated laws. Happy Holidays! ᗙ DBigXrayᗙ 19:46, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
- Many thanks. I could't find that in the article. Not sure how that gets expressed on the infobox. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:35, 30 December 2019 (UTC)
US Intelligence reports
In this section, the following text has been restored:
Khashoggi had applied for U.S. citizenship and was offered and he accepted a position as a fellow at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars (or Wilson Center), located in Washington, D.C.
This is true, but how is this related to (this section) US intelligence reports of his murder? @DBigXray: I don't see it (yet).
Riventree (talk) 20:35, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
- Riventree, you failed to notice that "US intelligence reports" is the subsection of the section titled "Victim" and this info is relevant to understand he was trying to escape from the kingdom. DBigXrayᗙ Happy Holidays! 20:42, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
Y'know, random accusations really don't work well on wikipedia. Just sayin. Keep the tone civil. I had not failed to notice anything. What I noticed was that this data didn't belong in this part of the Victim section. I'll fix that now.
Fixed.
Riventree (talk) 22:08, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
- Hold on to your horses. "Random accusations!", "(un)civil tone" really ?. You seem to have a very generous definition of an "accusation" or "(un)civil tone" which doesn't really seem to match with my dictionary. Please read and follow WP:INDENT while commenting on the talk page. Anyway it was nice talking to you. Merry Christmas or whatever you celebrate. --DBigXrayᗙ Happy Holidays! 22:58, 23 December 2019 (UTC)