Talk:Assam/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Etymology of Assam

Usage:

Response to third opinion request:

Having read both arguments and having done some online research, I agree that stating that "the current name "Assam" is based on the English word "Assam"" is nonsensical and should be removed. The Alternate text 2 suggested by User:Chaipau makes a lot more sense, is more condense and down to the point. It also uses more detailed references. However, I do believe that in the beginning of the Assam Etymology section, there should be a point for the readers that the etymology of the word still remains disputed and that there is no universal academic consensus on it.H tan H epi tas (talk) 23:54, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

This third opinion and User:H tan H epi tas is fraud and likely created by disputing user himself because:

• Said account of User:H tan H epi tas created just few hours ago, see here and here.
• Similarity of word usage and tone as in the edit summary of here.

It is now going towards fraud alongwith censorship. As regarding third opinion it must be from specialists for whom references are already given.

bbhagawati 13:10, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

@bbhagawati - Your unsubstantiated reactions and defamation of other users show why this dispute cannot be resolved. I have contributed in Wikipedia through my IP in the past, for many years. Just because I created a new account yesterday (I have lost the details of my previous one and I don't like to show my IP any more for the likes of you) this does not mean I am a fraudster etc. Watch your mouth and accept a third opinion. If you don't, User:Chaipau should file a complaint at the appropriate section of Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard because you jump to conclusions and defame other well-wishing editors. I don't take this attitude kindly. I have only provided unbiased third opinion and have never edited or revised the Article in question before. --H tan H epi tas (talk) 13:51, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you H tan H epi tas, for your opinion. I greatly appreciate your close reading of the texts and the references therein. Your suggestion that the lack of academic consensus should be highlighted has been implemented in Alternate Text 2. I shall wait for User:Bhaskarbhagawati's reply and shall then transfer the Alternate Text 2 to the article. Chaipau (talk) 00:57, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

As for tags placed on citation number 15 stating "not in citation",by the above user, it is mentioned there that "Assam is based on the English word Assam". It taken from book namely "Land and People of Indian States and Union Territories" by authors S. C. Bhatt and Gopal Bhargava, published by Gyan Publishing House in 2005. In page no. 147 of said book it is mentioned that "The word Assamese is an English one built on the same principle as Cingalese, Canarese etc. It is based on the English word Assam". Which can be directly referred from said book. If needed, i can upload the same.

For citation number 19 which is marked by above user as irrelevant is from book ASSAMESE, ITS FORMATION AND DEVELOPMENT by Banikanta Kakati published by Govt. of Assam in the Dept. of Historical and Antiquarian Studies . Here author mentions that both Assam and Assamese are English words. He says The word Assamese is an English one. built on the same principle as Cingalese. Canarese. etc. It is based on the English word Assam., it is directly quoted in the article. The same view is echoed by Satyendra Nath Sarma which also directly quoted in article for reference, is from his book "Assamese literature: Volume 9, Part 2" published by Harrassowitz. Direct quotes of said scholars are given from their respective books so that contributors remain free from their personal interpretations, which is not allowed in Wikipedia.

This is an incomplete quote. A similar quote from the same author is: "The word 'Assamese' is an English one based on the the anglicised form 'Assam' from the native word "Asam", which in its turn is connected with the Shans who invaded the Brahmaputra Valley in the 13th century." Kakati, Banikanta, Aspects of Early Assamese Literature (Gauhati University Press, 1953) p1 Chaipau (talk) 23:58, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Above are the views of specialists making it academic consensus. So said section be reduced by removing unnecessary interpretations and directly putting in views of pioneering experts.

All these arguments are moot because "Assam" itself is a word derived from a native word, and we are trying to state the possible etymology of the name "Assam" in this section. Stating that '"Assam" is based on the English word Assam" is ridiculous. And there is incontrovertible evidence that the name Assam or its variants were not coined by the British. Edward Gait (1906), pp=240-241 (and this book is open [http://books.google.com/books?id=GvcRAAAAYAAJ&dq=history%20of%20assam&pg=PA240#v=onepage&q=history%20of%20assam&f=false here) states that the Mughal rulers used the Persian equivalent of "Asham" and that the British initially used the name with one 's', ie. "Asam".

So, "Assam is based on the English word Assam" is ridiculous as well as factually incorrect. The reference says "Assamese" is based on Assam, not Assam is based on Assam. The pioneering experts do not say what you claim. Because this is what Banikanta writes in "Early Aspects of Assamese Literature": 'The word 'Assamese' is an English one based on the anglicised form 'Assam' from the native word "Asam", which in its turn is connected with the Shans who invaded the Brahmaputra Valley in the 13th century'. Here he clearly states that "Assam" is an anglicised form of a native word "Asam". So it is very clear now that the British initially used the form closest to the native name (which Gait states was "Asam"), which later changed to anglisized form "Assam".

Chaipau (talk) 11:24, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

And regarding citations number 12,13 etc. there no text found supporting the claims of word pickings. so said section can be curtailed to respect Wikipedia's policies, to ease confusion and to make it accessible.

I have provided references (The Statesman article by Wahid Saleh), as well as links to the maps. Your objections are baseless.

As Assam is known mostly by three major names i.e "Pragjyotisha" in Mahabharata and other Sanskrit scriptures, "Kamarupa" historically upto early second millennium and also by later invaders in some form. And finally "Assam" in modern times.

This is absolutely untrue. There are a lot of uses of the name Assam and its variants in Assam's indigenous manuscripts starting with Sankardev's Bhagavata (where the name "Asam" is used), as well as Abu-Fazl's Ain-I-Akbari (where the name "Asham" is used), both from the 16th century. The first use of the name by Europeans come from the 17th century, from individual travelers and soldiers who accompanied Mughal expeditions into Assam. It would be preposterous to suggest that the representatives of Mughal Empire accepted the name coined by these European adventurists, who were after all their guests. Chaipau (talk) 11:24, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

So etymology section should only mention this three names. Minute details can be discussed in etymology related article, not here. So finally it may look like this :

Alternate Text 1

Assam was known as Pragjyotisha in the Mahabharata, Puranas and historically as Kamarupa (350–1140), an kingdom that ruled Assam for 800 years.

The academic consensus is that current name "Assam" is based on the English word Assam by which the British rulers referred to the tract covered by the Brahmaputra valley and its adjoining areas ruled by erstwhile Kamarupa. The named Assam applied to most of North East India including Brahmaputra and Barak river valleys, hills of Arunachal Pradesh (NEFA), Mizoram (Lushai Hills), Nagaland (Naga Hills) and Meghalaya (Khasi Hills, Jaintia Hills and Garo Hills. Assam was known as Asama after 15th century till arrival of British. The medieval native name was "Asama" derived from Sanskrit meaning unequal as referring to its geology which is equal mix of river valleys and hills. The British province after 1838 and the Indian state after 1947 came to be known as Assam.

Different scholars forwarded their view in this regard. Some of them are as below. Banikanta Kakati's view regarding etymology of current official name and official language of state is as follows:-

The word Assamese is an English one. built on the same principle as Cingalese, Canarese etc. It is based on the English word Assam.

Satyendranath Sarma says:-

Assamese is the easternmost Indo-Aryan language of India, spoken by nearly eight millions of people inhabiting mostly the Brahmaputra valley of Assam. The word Assamese is an English formation built on the same principle as Simhalese or Canarese etc. It is based on the English word Assam by which the British rulers referred to the tract covered by the Brahmaputra valley and its adjoining areas. But the people call their country Asama and their language Asamiya.

So even above lines may be shortened to make it more simple. And now last but not least, it can be found by looking at recent history of this article, specially this section, where sourced material are keep on removed. This malpractice should be stopped.

Thanks !

bbhagawati 08:18, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

This blatantly disregards all available evidence (read comments earlier). It ignores the evidence (duely accepted by alll) that there were uses of the name "Asam" (native), "Asham" (Mughal) etc before the British, and that "Assam" is an anglicised form of these names. I shall provide an alternate text some time later. Chaipau (talk) 11:28, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

As expected, twenty four hour vigilant vandals even try to censor talk page content as in Here. So same is now put in Here with wiki formatting.

Thanks !

bbhagawati 17:45, 4 June 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bhaskarbhagawati (talk • contribs)

Alternate text 2

The above text proposed by User:Bhaskarbhagawati is unwieldy, verbose and inaccurate. An alternative text, for the entire subsection is given here. The text merely touches on the main issues, with the reader invited to look at the main article, Etymology of Assam, for further details (which should be revamped and language improved...but that is a different story):

Currently there exists no academic consensus on the precise etymology of "Assam". In the classical period and up to the 12th century the region east of the Karatoya river, largely congruent to present-day Assam, was called Kamarupa, and alternatively, Pragjyotisha. But the region owes its current name to Shan invaders who established the Ahom kingdom in the 13th century and ruled for nearly 600 years. Though association of the name with the Shan invaders is widely accepted the precise origin of the name is not clear. It was suggested by some that the Sanskrit word Asama ("unequalled", "peerless", etc) was the root, which has been rejected by Gait as well as Kakati. and it is now accepted that it is a later Sanskritization of a native name. Among possible origins are Tai (A-Cham) and Bodo (Ha-Sam).

After the annexation of Assam, the British called it Asam which later took the modern form Assam.

Chaipau (talk) 23:35, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Alternate text 3

Currently there exists no academic consensus on the precise etymology of "Assam". In the classical period and up to the 12th century the region east of the Karatoya river, largely congruent to present-day Assam, was called Kamarupa, and alternatively, Pragjyotisha. In the medieval times the Mughals used Asham, and during British colonialism, the English used Asam and then Assam. Though association of the name with the 13th century Shan invaders is widely accepted the precise origin of the name is not clear. It was suggested by some that the Sanskrit word Asama ("unequalled", "peerless", etc) was the root, which has been rejected by Gait as well as Kakati. and it is now accepted that it is a later Sanskritization of a native name. Among possible origins are Tai (A-Cham) and Bodo (Ha-Sam).

Alternate text 4

The precise etymology of "Assam" in unknown. In the classical period and up to the 12th century the region east of the Karatoya river, largely congruent to present-day Assam, was called Kamarupa, and alternatively, Pragjyotisha. In medieval times the Mughals used Asham, and during British colonialism, the English used Assam. Though many authors have associated the name with the 13th century Shan invaders the precise origin of the name is not clear. It was suggested by some that the Sanskrit word Asama ("unequalled", "peerless", etc) was the root, which has been rejected by Kakati, and more recent authors have concurred that it is a latter-day Sanskritization of a native name. Among possible origins are Tai (A-Cham) and Bodo (Ha-Sam).

Chaipau should file a complaint -is this a threat?

User H tan H epi tas wrote, "Watch your mouth and accept a third opinion. If you don't, User:Chaipau should file a complaint at the appropriate section of Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard because you jump to conclusions and defame other well-wishing editors."

User H tan H epi tas wrote, "I don't take this attitude kindly. I have only provided unbiased third opinion and have never edited or revised the Article in question before."

• So you ask another user to file a complaint. Why don't you file a complaint yourself?

Kurmaa (talk) 04:45, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

• If you had read the whole talk about this, you would have understood. User:Chaipau had asked for a Third opinion. I provided one. But the other editor became aggressive and did not accept its validity. So, what I meant, is that User:Chaipau needed to escalate his actions regarding the resolution of the dispute over the Assam Etymology. I suggested that he needed to file a complaint over this at the appropriate section = a Dispute Resolution, because the other editor would not accept the third opinion. For the story, User:Chaipau did file a dispute resolution ending up in vain, exactly because the other editor kept refusing to compromise.

If you have any other personal questions about something written, you should address them to my talk page and not randomly in here. I visited this talk page by chance, looking through my watchlist. It's ridiculous to even suggest that this is a "threat". You don't even understand the meaning of the word. --H tan H epi tas (talk) 20:53, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Defeat of Wikipedia article policies

   *No original research
   *Neutral point of view
   *Verifiability

No original research

The first and most important policy is constantly ignored by above user by looking for evidences and by not providing established facts referring to direct quotes of eminent scholars, specialists etc. Even when provided by others with references, is overlooked and disregarded. If direct quotes provided, then it maybe not such long discussion avoiding confusion to many users.

Since it is impossible to engage you in a discussion, I take this opportunity to try and clarify the situation, as well as record for others to judge.

The quote you provided, from Banikanta kakati, is partial: "The word Assamese is an English one. built on the same principle as Cingalese. Canarese. etc. It is based on the English word Assam." Yes, the quote claims that Assamese is derived from Assam. Yes, it also mentions that Assam is an English name. But it does not state anything about the Etymology of Assam. And yet you claim that "Assam is based on the English word Assam". This claim is not only ridiculous in itself but it is also incorrect; and I have provided the complete quote (from a different book) by the same author. Here he unabiguously states that Assam, the English name, is based on a native word: "The word 'Assamese' is an English one based on the the anglicised form 'Assam' from the native word "Asam", which in its turn is connected with the Shans who invaded the Brahmaputra Valley in the 13th century." I have also given a reference where he actually derives the name from A-Cham, where Cham is a Tai word. You have made selective use of the quote from Banikanta Kakati, in a ridiculous fashion. Chaipau (talk) 17:51, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Neutral point of view

Second policy is defeated when a particular tribe is tried to glorified overlooking the quotes from scholars who directly linked particular word to particular language. This practice in turn lead to accumulation of large matter and compromising the easy accessibility of said section, where an separate article is already there to for its broad discussion.

As shown above, I have not ignored your quote, but clarified it by giving the entire quote. As far as size, citation clutter and clarity goes, we both have given competing texts here: yours and mine. I invite you and others to compare the sizes. Chaipau (talk) 17:51, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Verifiability

This policy failed when facts cited cannot be verified directly e.g in citation number 12 it is mentioned that Dutch pick up a particular word, for which citation provided is a writings from a person (scholarly status is uncertain) stating that "The map from 1662 shows the name "Assam" at the correct geographical location." There is no mention of picking or first use etc. This makes it directly not verifiable and lead to interpretations by different users in different way, which is not allowed in Wikipedia. Same is in the case of citation number 13.

You may question the author, but the reference I have cited is from a newspaper article. And newspaper articles are acceptable sources. And the issue is not one of interpretation, but one of evidence. If you dispute the existence of the map, then you have to cite a reference, which you have not done. In anycase, this is minor point. There is enough evidence that the English themselves used "Acham" (Thomas Bowery), as well as "Asam" (with a single 's') during the early years of colonialism. This you can verify by clicking on this link, and reading the last line page 240. Chaipau (talk) 17:51, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Conclusion

As an separate article is already there for said topic, so said section should be highly compact offering direct facts, without going much depth like origins which can be discussed in article dedicated to said topic. Hope my view is not deleted as it is done earlier.

I shall clarify that I replied to your comments (see here), whereas you deleted all my comments (see here). You cannot claim replies and comments are deletions (or censorship, as you did in the subject line). Chaipau (talk) 17:51, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia's diffs function is sometimes stupid. It appears to a casual observer that Chaipau replaced a long passage by BB with new remarks, though if one scrolls down one sees BB's pre-existing text as a "new" insertion. —Tamfang (talk) 17:31, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks !

The above (i admit of not scrolling down) is extension of censorship cases, earlier cases are here where reference is deleted and here where large text is deleted which makes an environment of mistrust. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bhaskarbhagawati (talk • contribs) 09:47, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

bbhagawati 09:18, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

• You might want to read WP:NOTAFORUM apart from that do you wish to propose an edit? Darkness Shines (talk) 09:34, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

• I am putting in my dispute along its basis. In regard to edit suggestion, it will be a good idea to keep the section compact and simple and as subject is controversial in nature one or two different views with proper citations of scholars may be mentioned.

Thanks for writing ! bbhagawati 11:28, 6 June 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bhaskarbhagawati (talk • contribs)

• The above mentioned quote regarding Anglicization from book "Early aspect of Assamese Literature" by "Banikanta Kakati" is not found. Upload of same will be appreciated.
• Regarding above remark of replying to me, how reply equals to deletion of others view and putting own views over it ?
• Regarding deletion of data, we can easily see that is a undid of immediate preceding revision which resultant in adding of my text and removal of other data automatically which means my data was remove manually and own was imposed on same on previous edit, an clear case of censorship.
• Regarding citations number 12 and 13, references had no mention of pickings and first use as claimed, so how can be they called as references,hence should be immediately removed along with claims.
• As in regard to term Kingdom of Assam, only one Kingdom is eligible for the same which is "Kamarupa" who ruled full length and breadth of Assam with greater period than others along with ancientness. The Kingdom mentioned by disputing user is limited to eastern Assam. Assam is much larger than that, then and now.
• As regard to progress of discussion, above user has finally accepted Assam as English word as in here after long period of denial though on its own terms for which no references are provided.
• So as it is accepted that Assam is an English word, it should immediately reflect in main article.

As this discussion is not fruitful and leading to usage of unfair means to cover up weakness of facts, i would rather add facts to main article with direct quotes from eminent scholars which should not be deleted as it was done earlier.

Thanks !

bbhagawati 13:10, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Uploaded text of Banikanta Kakati

Since you could not find the reference I cited, I am uploading the relevant pages from the book "Aspects of Early Assamese Literature", Gauhati 1953. Look here:http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/File:Kakati1953_early_aspects_assamese_pp1%2C2.pdf I shall not upload any other reference. --Chaipau (talk) 19:25, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Most importantly as British used word "Assam" for the land they ruled i.e most part of the region, it should be reflected same way here.

bbhagawati 13:22, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

It's trivially obvious that each ruler uses some name for its territory, and that the spelling now used in English is the one adopted by English-speakers. Why does BB give so much importance to this point? Is it BB's position that no form of the name (Asam, Acom, whatever it was originally) was used for the region before the British imposed it?

I don't understand BB's claim "above user has finally accepted Assam as English word as in here". The link is to one of BB's own edits.

We don't normally say that something becomes an English word simply by acquiring an English spelling. Tagore and Murphy remain Bengali and Irish names, respectively, even though these spellings are not used in the original languages. —Tamfang (talk) 17:31, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

First query about my position that no form of the name (Asam, Acom, whatever it was originally) was used for the region before the British imposed it, i like to see the para where i said so, rather my position is that word "Assam" is never used before arrival of British locally. Regarding my claim that "above user has finally accepted Assam as English word as in here". There disputing user has himself given reference to quote from Scholar "Banikanta Kakati" which says that Assam is anglicized version of Asam, which is mentioned in the linked page, same provided in a way to counter future changes. Regarding users quote that We don't normally say that something becomes an English word simply by acquiring an English spelling. Tagore and Murphy remain Bengali and Irish names, respectively, even though these spellings are not used in the original languages. To add i like give an example of another word "Aryan" which is now an English word having its sources in "Arya" an Sanskrit word. Arya was used as self designation by Indo-Aryans but when it acquired English spelling by adding an extra 'N' it becomes an English word mentioned in all English dictionaries which means larger picture than traditional word by referring to Indo-Iranians and sometimes entire Indo-European people unlike the Arya. It here mentioned that to anybody's common knowledge that no language is closed but an dynamic which constantly acquiring word from other languages like adoption of Sanskrit, Greek words by English. And regarding the word 'Tagore', it was coined by Europeans to referred to people with Thakur surname but unlike Thakur it has no meaning in Bengali. Its not non inclusion to English dictionary is due to its limited scope of use. Its being carried on by some Bengali people in same way like Banerjee and Chatterjee instead of Bandopadhay and Chottopadhay.

And regarding terming Assam as English word, is a view of Scholars as mentioned in references not my personal echoed at last by disputing user himself by providing the said quote by said scholar. When it mentioned as "Anglicize" it means "to make or become English in form or character" to anybody knowledge, and according to dictionary. Here it also mentioned that when original Asam (i am going with scholars, though i have not found same book till now, relying on above upload and single source) refers to tribe but English Assam refers to a piece of land in North East India ruled by British which makes an difference. So not the current word which is "Assam" is related to an tribe but the an inspiring word instead.

Thanks for contributing !

bbhagawati 09:25, 8 June 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bhaskarbhagawati (talk • contribs)

When I ask you whether your position is X, it's because I do not know whether your position is X, so no, I cannot point to the (previous) paragraph where you said so. Thank you, then, for saying: "my position is that word 'Assam' is never used before arrival of British locally"; now I can point to that.

I think everyone accepts that that precise form of the word was not used before Europeans came along. It is news to me that it was not previously applied to the land.

Why not say: "Asam was the name of a tribe. Its origin is believed, bla bla bla. It was first applied to a territory, in the anglicized form Assam, in ...."

The opinion of "scholars" that Assam originated in the English word Assam, which presumably was derived from an English word Assam and so on (it's turtles all the way down!), appears to be your misconstruction of one statement of one scholar.

—Tamfang (talk) 16:48, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Different forms of the name were used before the British. For example, the Persian equivalent of "Asham" was used in Abu-Fazl's 16th century Ain-i-Akbari (D C Sircar "Kamarupa-Pragjyotisha" p59 in "The Comprehensive History of Assam Vol I" ed H K Barpujari, (1991)) Chaipau (talk) 18:04, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Well for misconstruction, i like to say that when i said current name "Assam" is based on "English" word "Assam" it means that current name is based on "English" word "Assam" without referring to its origin (its a different matter to be discussed). I added the word "Assam" with "Name" because to avoid queries like "what name?", as few other names are also mentioned in paragraphs above and state also have current name in local language too. Though giving it in bracket is also an option, which may be considered.

Thanks for time !

bbhagawati 05:46, 9 June 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bhaskarbhagawati (talk • contribs)

If the word Assam is based on the word Assam, then on what is the word Assam based? —Tamfang (talk) 07:15, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Very deep question, its base not based !

bbhagawati (talk) 11:02, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

?? —Tamfang (talk) 16:15, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

To make it straight there are no two words but one and sentence means that Assam is an English word.

Thanks for enthusiasm !

bbhagawati (talk) 12:59, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

An English word based on nothing but itself? A case of spontaneous generation? —Tamfang (talk) 03:08, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

I don't understand why this question raised again here as we had already discussed it in dispute resolution noticeboard. But as you asked here again i like to add that i never termed it as spontaneous generation rather a new English word which maybe inspired by some native word but not pointed to a specific word because its a matter of another discussion. And said that this new word was used by British to refer to a piece of land (Brahmaputra Valley and its adjoining areas i.e most part of North East India) only not to a tribe.

But i like to add here that spontaneous generation is possible in word formation. Words like "tantrum", "slang" etc. are good examples for same.

Thanks !

bbhagawati (talk) 11:00, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

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• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20070928003319/http://www.downtoearth.org.in/full6.asp?foldername=20020115&filename=gra&sec_id=11&sid=1 to http://www.downtoearth.org.in/full6.asp?foldername=20020115&filename=gra&sec_id=11&sid=1
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060520204718/http://www.envisassam.org/VOL2_2.pdf to http://www.envisassam.org/VOL2_2.pdf
• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20070418204719/http://www.nerdatabank.nic.in:80/as_minerals.htm to http://nerdatabank.nic.in/as_minerals.htm
• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20071006161204/http://janasanyogassam.nic.in/assamataglance.htm to http://janasanyogassam.nic.in/assamataglance.htm
• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20070220213032/http://planassam.org:80/reports/hdr_2003/HRD.htm to http://planassam.org/reports/hdr_2003/HRD.htm
• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20070220213032/http://planassam.org:80/reports/hdr_2003/HRD.htm to http://planassam.org/reports/hdr_2003/HRD.htm

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External links modified

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I have just added archive links to 3 external links on Assam. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

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• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20070615001750/http://www.ncw.nic.in/pdfreports/Gender%20Profile-Assam.pdf to http://www.ncw.nic.in/pdfreports/Gender%20Profile-Assam.pdf
• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20070220213032/http://planassam.org:80/reports/hdr_2003/HRD.htm to http://planassam.org/reports/hdr_2003/HRD.htm

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Maps of districts of Assam

In 2016 Assam has made 33 nos. districts by adding more. The maps of Assam related topics are useing old maps. P@rik$hit 16:11, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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I have just modified 7 external links on Assam. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131103180934/http://www.assamtribune.com/scripts/detailsnew.asp?id=jun1610%2Fat036 to http://www.assamtribune.com/scripts/detailsnew.asp?id=jun1610%2Fat036
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160624164612/http://www.tezpurmb.co.in/AboutMunicipalBoard.aspx to http://www.tezpurmb.co.in/AboutMunicipalBoard.aspx
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160327181336/http://jorhatmunicipalboard.org/jorhat_municipal_board.php to http://www.jorhatmunicipalboard.org/jorhat_municipal_board.php
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150301002205/http://www.indiatea.org/tea_sencor.php to http://www.indiatea.org/tea_sencor.php
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150923200248/http://www.assamtribune.com/scripts/mdetails.asp?id=oct1713%2Fat098 to http://www.assamtribune.com/scripts/mdetails.asp?id=oct1713%2Fat098
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150923200246/http://www.assamtribune.com/scripts/mdetails.asp?id=jan2114%2Fcity07 to http://www.assamtribune.com/scripts/mdetails.asp?id=jan2114%2Fcity07
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131103180502/http://www.assamtribune.com/scripts/detailsnew.asp?id=mar1012%2Fat092 to http://www.assamtribune.com/scripts/detailsnew.asp?id=mar1012%2Fat092

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External links modified

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Employment Section is opinionated rather than based on facts

The employment section is heavily biased. Spins news articles to reach conclusions not mentioned in the source. Also taking a generic two paragraph article to explain the unemployment problem in the state is not research. This article apparently explains how people from outside are taking jobs from Assam https://web.archive.org/web/20150923200248/http://www.assamtribune.com/scripts/mdetails.asp?id=oct1713%2Fat098 — Preceding unsigned comment added by RachitTheGr8 (talk • contribs) 13:13, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Image dump in Tourism section

Saumya.purkayastha you posted the following message on my and JzG's talk page.

Assam is a large state in India with more than 30 Million people residing in the state. There are multiple tourist places of importance in the state. I added the most important places. The ones which are added are not the post important ones like nobody in Assam knows about the Panbari mosque. Its not a tourist place.

You have reverted the changes saying that the gallery images are way too many. How many you think are good number of images to be displayed in the gallery?

Also, I would like to know what Wikipedia policy/guidelines say about gallery images and if there is a maximum number of images which can be added to the gallery in a certain page.

A single row of images is generally considered to be sufficient. An image gallery is not a way to shoehorn a ton of images with no obvious purpose. A dump of images with no accompanying commentary does not suit an encyclopedia. If you want some points of reference, you can look at featured articles and good articles. For example, Karnataka which is a featured article does not have an image gallery while the two galleries in Kerala, a good article, are backed up by prose that demonstrates the importance of the images in the gallery. In contrast, the Tourism section in this article is a single generic sentence. I'd suggest that you start looking for sources to expand the Tourism section and then choose the images that would enhance a reader's understanding of the section as recommended by the Image use policy. —Gazoth (talk) 16:41, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Sylheti additions

Msasag, can you justify your sourcing for this edit? The Ethnologue ref that you provided does not support the contentious claim that Sylheti is the most widely spoken language in Barak valley, it merely states that it is spoken in Barak valley. As for the remaining ref, you have only added a shortened footnote without its accompanying full citation. If Masica 1991 refers to Colin Masica's The Indo-Aryan Languages, there is nothing in pages 23–27 to support the content that you have added. Can you provide quotes from the book to support your claims? —Gazoth (talk) 20:45, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

@Gazoth: The ethnologue link also gives the number: 3,000,000 (in 2003) as the total number of Sylheti speakers in India. So the total population of Barak valley in 2001 was 2,988,797 (3,666,653 in 2011) + the total population of North Tripura district was 590,655 = 3,579,452. Which makes Sylheti the most spoken language of this region. —Msasag (talk)

@Msasag: That is synthesis of published material. The Ethnologue ref doesn't differentiate between L1 and L2 speakers and another language could be more widely spoken. You also haven't addressed the second issue in my first comment. —Gazoth (talk) 12:25, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

@Gazoth: According to the ethnologue ref the total number L1 users of Sylheti in all countries is 10,300,000 - the total number of L1 Sylheti speakers in Bangladesh is 7,000,000 = 3,300,000. I'll try to give reply to your 2nd question later, currently I'm busy. —Msasag (talk)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Kamarupa map.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:52, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

If we don't know how assam got it's name then we should delete the derivation in the first paragraph.

180.151.109.137 (talk) 13:08, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Mushroom Pillar.jpg

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

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This page should be protected from vandalism

A certain person keep adding "Sylhetis" as native along with other native Northeastern ethnic groups. This page must be protected to avoid such vandalism. The Black Truth (talk) 19:49, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

Although I was not the one who added Sylhetis as indigenous in the lead but I believe it should stay as per Sylhet region and Barak Valley article, which cites multiple sources which says the Barak was part of Greater Sylhet region.

1) Some excerpts :

• In 1946, Gopinath Bordoloi, the Prime Minister of British Assam brought forward his wish to hand over Sylhet back to East Bengal. Following a referendum, almost all of erstwhile district of Sylhet became a part of East Bengal in the Dominion of Pakistan. After being pleaded by a delegation led by Abdul Matlib Mazumdar, the Barak Valley districts were barred and incorporated into the Dominion of India. The referendum was held on 6 July 1947. 239,619 people voted to join East Bengal (i.e. part of Pakistan) and 184,041 voted to remain in Assam (i.e. part of India). The referendum was acknowledged by Article 3 of the Indian Independence Act 1947.

• ...It tried to force the government to identify and deport foreigners illegally migrating from neighbouring Bangladesh and to provide constitutional, legislative, administrative and cultural safeguards for the indigenous Assamese majority, which they felt was under threat due to the increase of migration from Bangladesh. However, it has been argued that the people are in fact indigenous Sylhetis who have been living in the area before the Independence of Bangladesh.

If an area of mostly Hindu Sylhetis wanted to stay in India would not mean they are foreigners in their own land.

References

2) Secondly, if Assamese Sikhs can be indigenous then Sylhetis can very well be as per above . - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 08:56, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

This is currently a hot political issue in Assam, and we will see much fireworks regarding this. So let us move deliberately in small steps on this. From my readings, the situation is not black and white, especially because the Sylhet was partitioned after the referendum, not on the basis of the referendum but because of the interests of the Tea Industry. So a lot of issues of colonialism come into this. Chaipau (talk) 14:55, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

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Semi-protected edit request on 23 July 2020

"Thereafter tea plantations mushroomed in Eastern Assam"

Could you change "mushroomed" to "multiplied"? "Mushroomed" sounds a little funny when talking about something that literally does grow, but isn't a mushroom or similar to one. 2601:5C6:8081:35C0:D0E9:28A6:3A1:89D2 (talk) 22:51, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Have changed – Thjarkur (talk) 22:54, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

You cannot edit this page. Romir das (talk) 11:24, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Assam have world hottest chili — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.134.44.158 (talk) 07:52, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

"Portal:Assam" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Portal:Assam. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 March 3#Portal:Assam until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Ravensfire (talk) 19:08, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 March 2021

Pls add this person in notable people of Assam * Shrinjan Rajkumar Gohain, Indian Chess Player 42.109.145.250 (talk) 15:45, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

 Done. Volteer1 (talk) 13:03, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Harvard published Map for Ming Era

@Homogenie: This map is incorrectly drawn. This isn't map from 1415. There is no map from that period. KPAhmed (talk) 17:43, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

True, it is drawn in 1935 Drawn and printed by Georg Westermann, Germany from Ming records. But its gives good estimation of different regional power of that time. The map is used in Bengal sultanate too. Also the page west bengal uses a world map for pala dynasty which is vastly inaccurate but still gives glimpes of the regional power of the time , i think that enough, anyways most world maps of today were drawn from records from older times. This is as clearly as you can get Homogenie (talk) 21:56, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

All the world maps of older times we see today were drawn in present times from older records. There were no world maps back then. This is from the "Historical and Commercial Atlas of China" and is one of the most conphresive atlas of china that has been ever produced. Morever this map is used in many different page. Homogenie (talk) 22:08, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

@Homogenie: If you can find correctly published latest map then please add it otherwise old one is misleading.KPAhmed (talk) 06:57, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 June 2021

Hi, I believe the language of people of Barack valley is Sylheti language, not Bangla. I am a sylhety myself and we people of sylhet was divided by two part by referendum after independence. Thanks Thanks. 142.116.151.225 (talk) 19:14, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Need more than just your knowledge/guess. RudolfRed (talk) 22:32, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Plz add this in the "social issue" content

The second patches between (1952-1958) of the same decade, around 212,545 Bengali Hindus from Bangladesh took shelter in various parts of the state permanently. After the 1964 East Pakistan riots many Bengali Hindus have poured into Assam as refugees and the number of Hindu migrants in the state rose to 1,068,455 in 1968 (sharply after 4 years of the riot). 2409:4065:14:4AB:70BA:6253:AC2E:F827 (talk) 17:11, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

 Not done. Please provide a direct link to wherever the information is located. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (talk) 06:32, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 July 2021

File:Bengali marriage.jpg

Dhoti and kurta (for men) draped Bengali Tant sari (for women)

this info is misguided and added by someone who seems to have intention in distorting facts

}} Nkkkkkklita (talk) 16:50, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:56, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 July 2021

Please add Rahul Singh Cricketer Assam and Debojit Saha a playback singer from assam in the list of notable people Snixtr (talk) 11:42, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:14, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 July 2021 - Edit request for false information on a wiki page, which was accepted without varification

1.

File:Bengali marriage.jpg

Dhoti and kurta (for men) draped Bengali Tant sari (for women)

This info is wrong, There is not Bengali dress used in Assam. The most predominant dress in Assam is Makhela Chador and different varieties of it for different tribes. This info is added by someone who is predominantly bengali and wanted his/her dress to be added in the homepage. It's like adding French culture infor to German identity. A simple web search will be enough for truth

This info should be removed, I don't know how this info is accepted without varification. here's the State govt's website for the official info -- https://assam.gov.in/about-us/391 https://www.holidify.com/pages/traditional-dresses-of-assam-22.html

2.

Dhunachi dance,

again this info is also wrong, Assam doesn't celebrate this type of dance. This dance is celebrated in West Bengal. You can clearly see the language in the picture is in Bengali and the place is also mentioned as Kolkata. Both these info were edited by same person and hence he seems to be trying to distort facts of the page. Assam celebrates Bihu.

This info should also be removed, again this was also accepted without varification.

Here's the official Govt. of Assam's website info. -- https://culturalaffairs.assam.gov.in/portlets/culture-of-assam#:~:text=Bihu%20is%20the%20most%20popular,steps%2C%20and%20rapid%20hand%20movement. }} Nkkkkkklita (talk) 17:13, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

 Partly done: I just removed the whole unsourced state symbols section. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:44, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Thousands of square miles

@Rasnaboy: Greetings! Regarding this revert: "1000² mi" means "millions of linear miles". "1000 mi²" means "thousands of square miles. Given that this is a measure of area, I assume this column should use the latter. We could also just say "thousands" as we say "millions" in words in the other column; "'000s" is a bit non-standard. -- Beland (talk) 18:13, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Dear @Beland:. I realize I made a mistake without noticing that part. You're right, it should be "thousands of square miles" or "'000 mi²". But I'm not sure if "'000s" is a non-standard one (especially in column heads of tables, when the columns are running short of space). I've reverted to what you've suggested. Apologies for my mistake. And thanks a lot for correcting. Please check if the current version is fine. Cheers. Rasnaboy (talk) 04:01, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

I gave it a slight trim just to save on horizontal space; looks good. Thanks! -- Beland (talk) 06:51, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 December 2021

Please add Barak Valley and hill region also in the demographics tab of Assam 2409:4065:D10:E886:B504:75C2:1246:1FCD (talk) 19:47, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 22:50, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Notable people section

@Chaipau: Hi, it is regarding this section. It seems a list of cherry-picked individuals (by mostly IPS and newbies since I've watching this article) who are already listed in respective town/city/district articles, as well as in the List of people from Assam making unnecessary. I believe we have List of people from Assam in the see also section as in Maharashtra or link it in the Notable people section using Template:Main. What do you suggest? - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 11:14, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk: I think we can remove the list of names from here. The Maharashtra page is a good example. Chaipau (talk) 21:37, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

 Done Chaipau (talk) 22:33, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Bordoisila into Assam

Bordoisila is an entry about a word, but it does not define it. If it is native to Assam, it may be best to merge it and better define it. Ost (talk) 01:31, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

• I have boldly redirected the article to Nor'westers, as Bordoisila seems to be an Assamese poetic folk word for those weather events. When it is used, the storm seems to be personified as a young woman fleeing her husband. See [1] for instance. — Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs)  20:29, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Infobox replacement

The {{Infobox settlement}} used on this page is going to be replaced with {{Infobox Indian state or territory}} as per the Proposal and Consensus of RFC. Any questions/suggestions? Discuss Here.

You can also contribute by replacing Infobox settlement with Infobox Indian state or territory on other pages , or by improving this one. Tojoroy20 (talk) 21:49, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

 Done Replaced Tojoroy20 (talk) 21:17, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Demonym

Assamese are not the only people living here so the demonym Assamese is not exactly the correct term, this will create confusions for the people about the indigenous people living in Assam Inspi97 (talk) 13:57, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Yes, there are many other people here other than locals. There are loads of tourists, and other state Indians. But the majority of Assam is filled with Assamese and about 95% 9f it's population. 103.147.31.187 (talk) 14:48, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 June 2023

On 31 December 2022 Tamulpur district was remerged with Baksa district Hxn121 (talk) 11:01, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Assam govt remerges Biswanath, Hojai, Bajali and Tamulpur with original districts==

@Hxn121: What exactly would you want changed. That is, which sentence? - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 12:09, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Maniram Gogoi 2409:4073:4D39:F530:0:0:D58A:EE00 (talk) 09:17, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Podumoni 2409:4073:4D39:F530:0:0:D58A:EE00 (talk) 09:18, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Substandard grammar

This page could benefit from some grammer editing. Gattodacqua (talk) 12:53, 4 July 2024 (UTC)