Talk:Art Tatum/Archives/2018
 | This is an archive of past discussions about Art Tatum. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Culture of Tatum's Toledo in 1909
This section is well-written, very informative and quite well-sourced, but I think it's somewhat WP:UNDUE in an article about Tatum. I'd suggest that much of it may be relevant to his parents, but not directly relevant to Tutum himself. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:35, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
- Agreed. I put a bit of it in the 'Early life' section and cut the rest. EddieHugh (talk) 20:58, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- Good stuff. Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:03, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
Parents' birthplaces
Where exactly are "Martinsville, West Virginia" and "Statesville, South Carolina"? Answers on a postcard please? Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:54, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
- Are there people working on projects for those states that might have the answers?
Vmavanti (talk) 23:47, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
- Good idea. But not sure where to post a question at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject West Virginia. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:19, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- There is a Statesville, North Carolina, but none in South Carolina (I am a South Carolina native). Softlavender (talk) 14:35, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- There is a New Martinsville, West Virginia, but no "Martinsville, West Virginia" that I can find. Softlavender (talk) 14:37, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- Yes I had added Statesville, North Carolina, and Martinsville, Virginia. But, as User:EddieHugh was quick to point out, they are both contrary to the current source. So I was quite happy to go with his restore and added hidden notes. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:40, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- The source is not infallible, and itself is cited to something else. Considering that his father was born less than two decades after the Civil War, and his mother only shortly thereafter, their records are likely nonexistent, missing, or lost to the mists of time. If no towns by those names ever existed, then they could not have been born there. Considering they both ended up in Ohio, I'd cast serious doubt as to being born in unknown towns in SC and WV. It's likely that someone interviewed Art and he spoke from memory, getting each location slightly wrong. (Heck, I can't even swear to you offhand where my own father grew up (some hamlet population 30 in South Carolina; either Cross Anchor or Cross Keys, I can't remember which). Softlavender (talk) 14:50, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- If there's a source for the changes, then please add it. If there isn't, then the best thing to do is to cut the birthplaces. We shouldn't put in things that we assume to be corrections of what's in a source, and leave the citation to that source in place. For example, there's no "Martinsville, West Virginia", but there is a "New Martinsville, West Virginia"... and a "Martinsville, Virginia". In the absence of a source, we have no idea which one is correct. EddieHugh (talk) 14:51, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- What Softlavender says makes sense, but I'd be happy to leave them out for now, with explanatory hidden notes if required. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:56, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- If there's a source for the changes, then please add it. If there isn't, then the best thing to do is to cut the birthplaces. We shouldn't put in things that we assume to be corrections of what's in a source, and leave the citation to that source in place. For example, there's no "Martinsville, West Virginia", but there is a "New Martinsville, West Virginia"... and a "Martinsville, Virginia". In the absence of a source, we have no idea which one is correct. EddieHugh (talk) 14:51, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- The source is not infallible, and itself is cited to something else. Considering that his father was born less than two decades after the Civil War, and his mother only shortly thereafter, their records are likely nonexistent, missing, or lost to the mists of time. If no towns by those names ever existed, then they could not have been born there. Considering they both ended up in Ohio, I'd cast serious doubt as to being born in unknown towns in SC and WV. It's likely that someone interviewed Art and he spoke from memory, getting each location slightly wrong. (Heck, I can't even swear to you offhand where my own father grew up (some hamlet population 30 in South Carolina; either Cross Anchor or Cross Keys, I can't remember which). Softlavender (talk) 14:50, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- Citation found and added. Good call on Martinsville, Virginia, EddieHugh and Martinevans123. -- Softlavender (talk) 14:59, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- Well done. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:02, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- Great, thanks! Balliett looks good; Lester probably (mis-)copied it from there. EddieHugh (talk) 15:11, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- Given that Lester got both cities wrong, I don't think he ever set eyes on the Balliet, and I would seriously question any other significant important details in the Lester book. IMO, anything from the Lester book should be checked via other sources as well for re-verification, if possible. Softlavender (talk) 15:38, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- That's the plan. It gets complicated, though, as Lester's the main source for anyone who wrote about Tatum after its publication. If I can look through original newspapers to check some dates, I will. I haven't decided if I'll continue in detail with Tatum or move on to another pianist who's poorly covered here (there's plenty of choice, sadly). EddieHugh (talk) 15:58, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- Lester seems to be the favoured as the main source for this article currently. But not having access to either Lester or Balliet, I'm not able to pass any judgement. Martinevans123 (talk)
- Balliett is just a few pages; Lester is a whole book on Tatum. Lester cites the first edition of Balliett (American Musicians: Fifty-six Portraits in Jazz) as a source, but I haven't seen that one. EddieHugh (talk) 16:05, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- Given that Lester got both cities wrong, I don't think he ever set eyes on the Balliet, and I would seriously question any other significant important details in the Lester book. IMO, anything from the Lester book should be checked via other sources as well for re-verification, if possible. Softlavender (talk) 15:38, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- Great, thanks! Balliett looks good; Lester probably (mis-)copied it from there. EddieHugh (talk) 15:11, 13 October 2018 (UTC)