Talk:Area (LDS Church)

Table format issue when area headers are combined in same table.

I'm using "Make headers of tables display as long as the table is in view, i.e. "sticky" (requires Chrome v91+, Firefox v59+, or Safari)" option "under the Testing and Development" section in Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets. This feature has been great when viewing other long tables until seeing a table like this where the entire Africa Central header shows up as I scroll down. Simply adding a break to each table should eliminate this issue.

I'm going to separate each section as separate tables to eliminate this issue. Thanks.-- Dmm1169 (talk) 22:38, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

Venezuela to Change Areas in August

Effective August 1, oversight for the nation of Venezuela will transition from the South America Northwest Area to the Caribbean Area. My thanks once again to you all. User:Jgstokes (talk)—We can disagree without becoming disagreeable. 22:12, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

2024 Changes in Area Leadership

The area leadership assignments for 2024 have been announced. I have created a subpage of this page to hold the changes until then. The changes that will be implemented, by area presidency, are as follows

Preliminary Note: An asterisk (*) denotes an area seventy.

Africa Central Area

Outgoing: Ian S. Ardern, Thierry K. Mutombo, Paul B. Pieper

Incoming: Thierry K. Mutumbo, Paul B. Pieper, Christophe G. Giraud-Carrier

Africa South Area

Outgoing: Edward Dube, Marcos A. Aidukaitis, Denelson Silva

Incoming: Carlos A. Godoy, Denelson Silva, Vaiangina Sikahema

Africa West

Outgoing: S. Gifford Nielsen, Jörg Klebingat, Alfred Kyungu

Incoming: Alfred Kyungu, Adeyinka A. Ojediran, Isaac K. Morrison

Asia

Outgoing/Incoming (No change): Benjamin M. Z. Tai, Kelly R. Johnson, Michael John U. Teh

Asia North

Outgoing: Takashi Wada, John A. McCune, J. Kimo Esplin

Incoming: John A. McCune, J. Kimo Esplin, Christopher H. Kim

Brazil

Outgoing: Joni L. Koch, Arnulfo Valenzuela, Mark D. Eddy

Incoming: Joni L. Koch, Ciro Schmiel, Mark D. Eddy

Caribbean

Outgoing: Eduardo Gavarret, Valeri V. Cordon, Moises Villanueva

Incoming: Jorge F. Zeballos, Valeri V. Cordon, Vern P. Stanfill

Central America

Outgoing/Incoming (No change): Taylor G. Godoy, Patricio M. Giuffra, Ryan K. Olsen

Eurasian (formerly Europe East):

Outgoing/Incoming (No change): Alexey V. Samaykin*, Nikolai Ustyuzahaninov*, Aleksandr A. Drachyov*

Europe Central:

Outgoing: Massimo De Feo, Ruben V. Alliaud, Jack N. Gerard

Incoming: Ruben V. Alliaud, Jack N. Gerard, James W. McConkie III

Europe North:

Outgoing: Hans T. Boom, Scott D. Whiting, Alan T. Phillips

Incoming: Scott D. Whiting, Marcos A. Aidukaitis, Alan T. Phillips

Mexico

Outgoing: Hugo Montoya, Adrian Ochoa, Sean Douglas

Incoming: Hugo Montoya, Sean Douglas, Moises Villanueva

Middle East/Africa North

Outgoing/Incoming (No change): Anthony D. Perkins, Adilson de Paula Parrella, Roland J. Bäck*

North America Central

Outgoing: Chi Hong (Sam) Wong, Randall K. Bennett, Ricardo P. Giminez

Incoming: Randall K. Bennett, Steven R. Bangerter, Ricardo P. Giminez

North America Northeast

Outgoing: Allen D. Haynie, Vaiangina Sikahema, Mathias Held

Incoming: Allen D. Haynie, Mathias Held, Robert M. Daines

North America Southeast

Outgoing: Vern P. Stanill, Shayne M. Bowen, Ahmad S. Corbitt

Incoming: Craig C. Christensen, Ahmad S. Corbitt, Massimo De Feo

North America Southwest

Outgoing: Evan A. Schmutz, Jose L. Alonso, Michael A. Dunn

Incoming: Jose L. Alonso, Michael A. Dunn, Jonathan S. Schmitt

North America West

Outgoing: Mark A. Bragg, Gary B. Sabin, Adeyinka A. Ojediran

Incoming: Mark A. Bragg, Takashi Wada, Peter M. Johnson

Pacific

Outgoing/Incoming (No change): Peter F. Meurs, Taniela B. Wakolo, Jeremy R. Jaggi

Philippines

Outgoing: Steven R. Bangerter, Yoon Hwan Choi, Carlos G. Revillo Jr.

Incoming: Carlos G. Revillo Jr., Chi Hong (Sam) Wong, Michael B. Strong

South America Northwest

Outgoing: Jorge F. Zeballos, Jorge T. Becerra, Rafael E. Pino

Incoming: Jorge T. Becerra, Rafael E. Pino, Juan Pablo Villar

South America South

Outgoing: Craig C. Christensen, Joaquin E. Costa, Alan R. Walker

Incoming: Joaquin E. Costa, Alan R. Walker, Eduardo Gavarret

Utah

Outgoing/Incoming (No change): Kevin W. Pearson, Hugo E. Martinez, Brian K. Taylor

My thanks once again to you all. User:Jgstokes (talk)—We can disagree without becoming disagreeable. 06:41, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Revert of changes effective August 1

Mikeblas reverted the changes I had made to a user subpage and copied here, consistent with Wikipedia policies, and using the same procedure I have used for years. His edit summary indicated "there are too many problems with the references for these changes". I am openly inviting him and anyone else to comment here as to why that is the case, also per established policies. I am willing to fix whatever problems with the references exist. Thanks. User:Jgstokes (talk)—We can disagree without becoming disagreeable. 04:23, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

Having looked over my imported changes, I can see a few issues Mikeblas may have had. The new missions added for 2024 were announced in November 2023, and lack sourcing. I can add those sources if given sufficient time to do so. I also see that there may have been a lack of sourcing for the new temples announced in 2024, which can be verified here, but for which sourcing can be found on the appropriate templates. And I see that he also reverted my renaming of the Birmingham United Kingdom Temple to the Birmingham England Temple. That change can be verified here. If there are other problems, please enlighten me. User:Jgstokes (talk)—We can disagree without becoming disagreeable. 04:47, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

Your change uses a reference named "August 2024 changes2". That reference is invoked more than 40 times, but is never defined. As a result, the additions you've made to the article are all un-referenced and not verifiable. With these errors present, the article is automatically added to the Category:Pages with broken reference names error tracking category. The footnotes added all result in error messages, so even a cursory examination of the changes should make it plainly obvious that the intended references aren't working.

Maybe you meant to use "August 2024 changes1", which is defined here, but it also seems deliberate that there are two different names because the "1" and "2" names are used together back-to-back. Maybe you meant "August 2023 changes2", with a different year, but that's also not completely apparent. Or, maybe you intended something else entirely.

I've again reverted your edit. Please don't reintroduce these errors to the article until you have a fix for them. -- mikeblas (talk) 13:50, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

Really?? That was all it was?? Then you should have said that in your revert rather than stating the edits had "too many problems"! If you had bothered to clarify that in your edit summary, the problem would have been fixed by me right then and this discussion would have been unnecessary. And FYI, one broken reference does not negate the information when there is also a validly-linked and properly defined "August 2024 changes 1". So your assertion that "the edits were unsourced" doesn't have a leg to stand on. I am trying very hard to assume good faith on your part, but you're making it very difficult for me to do so in this case. Just so you know, the problem you mentioned was fixed. It amounted to a simple typo in the second cited source's defined name. Any other editor I've worked with at all on this page would have had the foresight to recognize what the issue was and the typo in question and fix it themselves. Apparently, you couldn't be bothered to extend that common courtesy to me in this case. Hopefully you'll have the good graces to do so next time. Good day, sir! User:Jgstokes (talk)—We can disagree without becoming disagreeable. 04:31, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Your fix was not completely effective as it left a new undefined reference (for "August 2023 changes2") and one of the bots cleaned it up for you. Was the fix that the bot made correct? -- mikeblas (talk) 13:49, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

Yes, it was. That is the correct source for "August 2023 changes2". User:Jgstokes (talk)—We can disagree without becoming disagreeable. 07:06, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Temples in ABC order

Should listing the temples in alphabetical order do so by country then city or state than city? This way all the temples in the same country or state within an area is grouped together. Thanks! - Dmm1169 (talk) 01:03, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

I'd have to see what you had in mind before giving that a yes or no answer. Seems to me that might unnecessarily coplicate things, particularly when it comes to states, countries, or nations where not all temples within the geographic borders are in the same area. That is particularly the case in the Umited States. That being said, your track record for good ideas when it comes to improving pages here speaks for itself, so I'd be willing to at least consider it if I can have a better idea of what you have in mind. Thanks. User:Jgstokes (talk)—We can disagree without becoming disagreeable. 04:41, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Example using Africa Central Area:

• Kananga Democratic Republic of the Congo Temple (site announced)
• Kinshasa Democratic Republic of the Congo Temple
• Lubumbashi Democratic Republic of the Congo Temple (under construction)
• Mbuji-Mayi Democratic Republic of the Congo Temple (announced)
• Nairobi Kenya Temple (under construction)
• Brazzaville Republic of the Congo Temple (announced)
• Kampala Uganda Temple (announced)

So if you wanted to see how many temples in DRC in Africa Central Area, or if there's a temple in Uganda, then it can be easily done. One can quickly scroll down to where Tanzania would be and see Africa Central Area has no temple in Tanzania.

As for US, temple names uses state names rather than countries so it would be sorted out by state. Example:

• Gila Valley Arizona Temple
• Gilbert Arizona Temple
• Mesa Arizona Temple
• Phoenix Arizona Temple
• Queen Creek Arizona Temple (announced)
• Snowflake Arizona Temple
• Tucson Arizona Temple
• Yuma Arizona Temple (announced)
• Elko Nevada Temple (under construction)
• Las Vegas Nevada Temple
• Lone Mountain Nevada Temple (site announced)
• Reno Nevada Temple
• Albuquerque New Mexico Temple
• Farmington New Mexico Temple (under construction)
• Austin Texas Temple (under construction)
• Dallas Texas Temple
• El Paso Texas Temple (announced)
• Fort Worth Texas Temple (under construction)
• Houston Texas Temple
• Houston Texas South Temple (announced)
• Lubbock Texas Temple
• McAllen Texas Temple
• McKinney Texas Temple (site announced)
• San Antonio Texas Temple
• Oklahoma City Oklahoma Temple
• Tulsa Oklahoma Temple (site announced)
• Monticello Utah Temple

You can quickly see there's one temple in Utah that's in the NASW Area rather than Utah Area.

This is still alphabetical order, kind of like sorting out by last name first.

Note: Tulsa Oklahoma Temple is in NA SW Area and is missing from the list. Thanks. - Dmm1169 (talk) 06:48, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

That's the main issue I see with this suggestion: when it comes to the United States, where area boundaries cross state lines, you'd have outlier sections that just list one or two temples that cross state boundaries. My personal hope is that, with the forthcoming creation of the Canada Area, the Church might redefine United States areas by state boundary, but that's not been confirmed. So the question is, would the suggested changes reduce and simplify in some cases but not in every case? And if it is only going to make the temples on part of the page easier to find, while other temples are more difficult to locate, the question is, would it be worth it? I'm certainly willing to dialogue about this. I just can't help feeling that it may simplify in some ways at the risk of complicating things in other ways. Thoughts? Thanks. User:Jgstokes (talk)—We can disagree without becoming disagreeable. 07:14, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Missions are still done by state then city even though they cross state lines. People are sorted by surname whether it's listed first or last. When I look at other articles ie. List of museums in the United States or look at various category listings, it seems to be listed by country then possibly state/province then possibly county etc.

If there's a few items in the list, it probably doesn't matter. If there's a lot, providing an abc order hierarchy of country, then state, then city seems to make more sense. Again, this is my two cents.

I would like to see broader discussion on this. Outside of categories and people, I don't see any guidelines on how these lists are to be presented. Thanks. - Dmm1169 (talk) 00:26, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

I think you made entirely valid points, all of which I agree with. Let's seek broader discussion on this and go from there. Thanks for your patience with me. User:Jgstokes (talk)—We can disagree without becoming disagreeable. 05:31, 3 January 2025 (UTC)