Talk:Ardem Patapoutian

Lead

We don't usually put birthplaces in lead unless its part of person's notability. Birthplace is already shown in infobox and in appropriate section, see Ardem_Patapoutian#Education. Also, I removed Lebanese-Armenian from the lead as the article itself, Lebanese-Armenian, says the following: "The Armenians in Lebanon are Lebanese citizens of Armenian descent.". We don't have sources saying he's a Lebanese citizen. @Sandstein I saw you edit the page, could you please protect it as high number of IPs revert with no explanation? ZaniGiovanni (talk) 18:12, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

Wouldn't be appropriate since I have edited the article, sorry. As to "Lebanese-Armenian", this seems to be more of an ethnocultural group rather than a matter of citizenship, but we should have sources one way or the other, so I'll also remove the American and Armenian claim, for which we cite equally no sources. Sandstein 18:19, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

He is American citizen. "Patapoutian, who was born in Lebanon, immigrated to the United States in 1986 and became a U.S. citizen." https://www.scripps.edu/news-and-events/press-room/2020/20200430-patapoutian-academy.html Grimes2 (talk) 18:25, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

I think his American citizenship is undisputed. However, I will say, if we do end removing any reference to his Lebanese place of birth in the lead, it would seem to me that we should also remove the reference to his Armenian heritage, since we have even less information to suggest that he has Armenian citizenship, and it’s not standard practice to list someone’s ethnicity in the lead. Wizardoftheyear (talk) 02:57, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Wizardoftheyear kindly revert yourself. Couple of points:

However, I will say, if we do end removing any reference to his Lebanese place of birth in the lead, it would seem to me that we should also remove the reference to his Armenian heritage, since we have even less information to suggest that he has Armenian citizenship We have a source for Armenian heritage, see second ref, quote: "Patapoutian, who was born in 1967 to Armenian parents in Lebanon and moved to Los Angeles in his youth, learnt of the news from his father as he had been out of contact by phone.".

On contrary, his place of birth is already mentioned in the article, Ardem_Patapoutian#Education, and infobox, and we have no sources stating Lebanese citizenship like you assumed in your edit. Please revert yourself. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 03:28, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Upon reflection, I agree with you. I have removed the reference both to his being Lebanese-born and to having Armenian heritage from the lead sentence. As a point of comparison, I would note the Daniel Dae Kim Wikipedia article, which only identifies him as an American actor, not noting his South Korean birthplace or Korean parents. Wizardoftheyear (talk) 04:01, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Wizardoftheyear I would note the Daniel Dae Kim Wikipedia article – read WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS.

Please add sourced content back. I didn't agree to your removal of heritage, you're misrepresenting my position. You broke a reference too in the process. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 04:24, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Hello. I have restored the broken reference. Apologies, that was an accident. I apologize if I appeared to misrepresent your position. What I meant was that I agreed with you that I thought that we should probably not refer to him as Lebanese-American, but rather simply as American. I further believe (which I do not claim to be your position) that we should not include the reference to his Armenian heritage in the lead, as it is not any more relevant than, say, Daniel Dae Kim's Korean heritage. As a side note, I don't think this situation seems to be a place where WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS applies. I used Daniel Dae Kim not simply because it's an article that exists, but because I think it's a fairly reasonable comparison, at least on this specific matter. Wizardoftheyear (talk) 04:53, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Wizardoftheyear WP:OTHERSTUFF absolutely applies, just because X article is a certain way doesn't mean Y should also be, READ carefully not just the parts you want. What is your problem? Can you please finally tell me and stop clinging into this page? You broke the reference again in your latest edit, and you just reverted me with no explanation. Please, for god’s sake, self-revert and don't brake the article again. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 05:02, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

ZaniGiovanni, the reference was unbroken in both my previous edit and my most recent one. I removed the reference to his Armenian heritage for reasons which I feel I have made clear on several occasions, and not just because of a Daniel Dae Kim article, but based on observation of what seems to be common practice across Wikipedia. I frankly have no interest in continuing this debate, and I feel it would probably be best for a third party to be the next to take a look at this article. Wizardoftheyear (talk) 05:07, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Wizardoftheyear multiple editors already didn't object to the sourced heritage mention, see conversation above.

the reference was unbroken in both my previous edit and my most recent one. – no it wasn't "unborken". This is one of your latest edits I showed, how does the sentence: "Patapoutian was born to an Armenian family in Beirut, Lebanon. descent />" look normal or “unbroken”? You literally broke the ref again just recently. And now you're reverting me based on your “personal observations”, meanwhile I'm showing you why your comparison doesn't make sense, see WP:OTHERCONTENT. Last time I'm asking, please revert yourself. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 05:20, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

Grimes2 do you have access to Wikipedia commons? If so, may I ask if you can upload a picture of this guy so we can put it in the infobox? Thanks in advance. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 18:51, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

Added source [1]. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 18:46, 5 October 2021 (UTC)