Talk:Arab al-'Arida

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What's a dunum?

The term is used in the article, but not explained, nor is it listed on Wikipedia (the only Dunum listed is a German city) Ttenchantr 05:04, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Should be dunam. Zero^talk 09:50, 16 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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Sde Eliyahu

@Huldra: I have just removed some text about Sde Eliyahu from the article because it does not make sense. It stated that "It is the site of the modern kibbutz Sde Eliyahu" and "The kibbutz of Sde Eliyahu, established in 1939, is east of the village site on village land". Neither of these statements appear to be correct because Sde Eliyahu was established nearly a decade before Arab al-'Arida was depopulated – they can't have both been on the same site at the same time.

As far as I can see, the three options are:

Both statements are completely wrong
The first statement is wrong and the second should be that Sde Eliyahu makes use of the land that had belonged to Arab al-'Arida.
Sde Eliyahu was moved after the war to the site of Arab al-'Arida (I know that several kibbutzim were relocated during the 30s/40s/50s).

Could you clarify which one it is and then the wording can be readded? Thanks, Number 5 7 12:58, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Number 57: Well, Khalidi writes, on p. 41, under the heading of "Israeli settlement on Village Lands":

"The settlement of Sde Eliyahu (198205), established in 1939, is east of the village site on village lands."

The way I understand this, is that Sde Eliyahu has expanded onto Arab al-'Arida land after 1948. Do you agree? In any case, Sde Eliyahu must have been established very close to Arab al-'Arida, as they both have the same grid number (198205). Huldra (talk) 21:04, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Could it also be that the land Sde Eliyahu was established on previously belonged to the village? Unfortunately it's a very unclear statement. Is there nothing else on it? Number 5 7 21:24, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Both could be true, they bought some, and took the rest in 1948. From the text, it is only clear that Sde Eliyahu presently occupies some of Arab al-'Arida land. Anyway, Arab al-'Arida only had 700 dunams of land in 1945, Sde Eliyahu had almost twice the amount, Huldra (talk) 21:35, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The question is how it can be worded when we don't know whether it was founded on or later took over the land. Perhaps something along the lines of "Sde Eliyahu, founded in 1939, is situated on land that had historically belonged to the village" as that is true but doesn't say either way when the land transfer happened. Number 5 7 22:21, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the "Israeli settlement on Village Lands" section is for listing the Israeli places which took over the village land. And since Sde Eliyahu is listed there, it would mean that according to Khalidi they also took over some land in, or after 1948. This is not uncommon, there are a lot of places which were established before 1948, but received additional land after 1948, Huldra (talk) 22:34, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If the section is specifically for that (does it actually make it clear?) then we can assume this is the case and note it as such in the article. Number 5 7 22:37, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the way I understand the preface, p.23, Huldra (talk) 22:41, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Could you give me a flavour of what it says, as Google Books doesn't give a full preview. Number 5 7 12:49, 21 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A map of 1942 shows El Arida but no sign of Sde Eliyahu. However, there is a place Qevutsat Arye right on top of where "El Arida" is written in the way that Bedouin tribe names are written. The cluster of buildings labeled Qevutsat Arye is labeled Sde Eliyahu in a 1944 map. Meanwhile, a 1943 map shows Sde Eliyahu in a fenced enclosure at its present location about 500m south. Maps don't always show things right up to date, so I don't see a contradiction. Probably Sde Eliyahu considers Qevutsat Arye to be its early self. All this including El Arida is within a circle of radius 500. Zero^talk 23:18, 21 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]