Talk:Andrey Bogolyubsky

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Biography: Royalty and Nobility

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"Connected to trading craft"??

Not sure what the following means:

he connected to trading-craft business of Rostov and Suzdal

Needs removing or improving. Will do the former, if no response.

qp10qp 15:06, 27 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

yes when people do translations, especially to a language they don't know all that well (as shown by missing definite/indefinite articles), you get this when they don't understand how to translate terms to the target language.108.18.136.147 (talk) 20:49, 25 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Vladimir icon of the Mother of God

Among the works of art Bogolyubsky took from Kiev was the famous "Vladimir icon of the Mother of God", which came to be seen as a sacred protector of Russia and was later moved in turn to Moscow by its rising princes. (The icon has its own Wikipedia entry as http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Theotokos_of_Vladimir). The cross-reference could be added to the article.

"Promoting development of feudal relations..": the point is perhaps too sophisticated for the article, but it's worth noting that mediaeval Russia was not a feudal society in the view of the historian Richard Pipes ("Russia under the Old Régime"). He characterises it as a patrimonial society in which the retainers of the prince were servants - almost slaves - not vassals. True feudalism as in Western Europe ca. 1000-1200 was a system if unequal but still reciprocal obligations, affirmed in person by both lord and vassal in the ceremony of homage. Russian rulers have never, in his view, accepted political obligations to their subjects. Marx had no real knowledge of feudalism and merely used the word as a label for any broadly seigniorial scheme of lords and peasants, such as that of 18th-century France, which had long ceased to be feudal in the precise sense.JamesWim 20:47, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

incomplete

Was just watching a Russian language history lesson which discussed the qualitative political changes under Bogolyubski that ultimately created the court's nobles out of former servants. This ought to be in here because it was crucial to what Russia became later. Find a couple of sources and add it. 108.18.136.147 (talk) 20:51, 25 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Cutting

@Nikolay Omonov Hi, I just added a lot of text plus the image to Andrey Bogolyubsky#Death. Could you take a look at whether I have translated (and transcribed) the Church Slavonic texts properly?

It also seems to me that the texts have a common ancestor, but it looks like the Hypatian/Ipatiev/Kievan text has been altered to include a reference to Sayings of Jesus on the cross#7. Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit. These attributed last words obviously contribute to the idea that Andrey was a saint (and he canonised as a saint by the Church in 1751). Therefore, I think this is an interpolation (manuscripts). What do you think? Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 15:46, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

PS: I also saw this post (1) and this post (2), which include quotations from a later medical examination of the body, which argue that Andrey's left arm was not fully cut off either, although it sustained serious injuries from cutting. I don't know if we could cite anything from this? It seems interesting, but also these are probably blog posts which are not reliable sources. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 15:50, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

PS: ukwiki has an article uk:Повість про вбивство Андрія Боголюбського, but it does not mention this part. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 16:00, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

At 1:23:47 in this video, this topic is also mentioned, although here it is claimed that Andrey's body was exhumed "in the 30s", not 1965 as Roshlin would have. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 08:17, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I think your translation and transcription is well done.

The development of these chronicles is really like the history of the saint's narrative, so I think you are right.

I do not remember the situation with the medical examination, but I will try to find sources. Nikolay Omonov (talk) 10:57, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]