Talk:Andrei Karlov

Suggest merging this to the assassination article

Only coming here from ITN, I would suggest that because Karlov did not seem to have any notability prior to the assassination, that the contents here be moved to the assassination article per BLP1E. --MASEM (t) 17:50, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

• He had a long career as a diplomat and government official, and was ambassador to North Korea for five years. I don't see why you would say he had no notability prior to being assassinated. —Мандичка^YO 😜 17:58, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
  • I would oppose the merge. Definitely passes GNG. If anything, his assassination should be redirected here.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:09, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

id give a merger either direction a minute before considering. we may get more info in the next 24 hours.(mercurywoodrose)50.193.19.66 (talk) 18:37, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

He might have had a long career but all sources seem to have come from today only. That's a fundamental aspect of WP:BLP1E. If there were significant secondary sources before this point, then that might be a different question, but this should have been merged. --MASEM (t) 00:14, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

• I assume you're only looking at English sources. Through his previous roles, he would have had decent coverage in the Russian press over the years. They're difficult to find at the moment since everything is about his assassination, but as ambassador to countries with significant relations with Russia, I'm confident they exist. —Мандичка^YO 😜 02:04, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

• Additional coverage: February interview after Turkey shot down Russian plane and article about how he helped build an Orthodox church in Pyongyang with Kim Jong Il's approval - this article explains how it happened why he got the award from the Russian Orthodox church. I would assume there was more coverage of this at the time, as it's unheard of for North Korea to build a church. —Мандичка^YO 😜 00:35, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

• He's also posthumously been awarded the title Hero of the Russian Federation, which qualifies him as notable per WP:ANYBIO. —Мандичка^YO 😜 01:33, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Osmanli Ocaklar

I removed "allegedly a member of the Osmanli Ocaklar" from the shooter bio because the refs dont cite this, and also i cannot find what this is. we would need an explanation for the phrase, in english, please.(mercurywoodrose)50.193.19.66 (talk) 18:32, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

This tweet (in Dutch) claims that Osmanli Ocaklar is "Erdogan's Ottoman youth militia group". Beyond that, I can't find any English-language information on it. clpo13_(talk) 18:37, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Assassination of Andrei Karlov which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 18:48, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

The discussion over there did not reach a consensus but the move was made as if there was one. Oh well RandomUser3510 (talk) 19:38, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

Mevlüt Mert Altıntaş

There should be a separate article, linking in from the main article about Andrei Karlov, about Mevlüt Mert Altıntaş (if that is the real name). Currently there is no link at wikipedia. I understand that information presently may be scarce, but perhaps in the coming days someone could create a separate article collecting information regarding the assumed attacker. 2A02:8388:1601:800:BE5F:F4FF:FECD:7CB2 (talk) 19:30, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

See WP:BLP1E. We do not as a rule create separate pages for people who are notable for only one event. They are discussed on the page concerning the event for which they are notable. General Ization ^Talk 19:47, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

Role in North Korea

Is it possible to add a paragraph about his years as ambassador to NK please? I guess most sources would be in Russian, so I can't help.Zigzig20s (talk) 20:20, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

• Yes, I will add what I've found. Unfortunately it's hard to find sources from that long ago, but I will try to expand it. —Мандичка^YO 😜 00:41, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Official title of Andrei

According to the website of the Russian Embassy in Turkey (http://www.turkey.mid.ru/eng/amb.html), his official title was "Ambassador of the Russian Federation to the Republic of Turkey". Perhaps the current infobox could be changed to reflect this? NewCarloso (talk) 20:23, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

Andrei or Andrey?

Many news outlets are reporting his name as Andrey Karlov, including Al Jazeera, The Independent, The Telegraph, Daily Mail etc. and also the official embassy website. However, others like BBC and Reuters are saying Andrei. Which ones correct or is it a case of Sergei vs Sergey? NewCarloso (talk) 20:37, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

He was a Russian. He spelled his name with Cyrillic letters: Андрей Геннадьевич Карлов 2601:445:4001:8A30:182F:461B:BC3E:3E41 (talk) 21:18, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

Andrey Karlov is already created as a redirect to our article. General Ization ^Talk 21:49, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

They're really the same thing. Wikipedia guidelines for transliteration prefer Andrei to Andrey (and Nikolai to Nikolay, etc). —Мандичка^YO 😜 01:34, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Merge

The assassination article should be merged into this article. There's no need, given the brevity of both articles and the overlap of detail, to have two separate articles. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:52, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

See Talk:Assassination of Andrei Karlov, where a discussion just closed which established no consensus at this time to move or merge either article. General Ization ^Talk 22:59, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

This topic was recently closed in Talk:Assassination of Andrei Karlov#Requested move 19 December 2016 as "NOT MOVED/MERGED". It may be appropriate to speedy close this proposal as a duplicate. Mamyles (talk) 23:02, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

Ok, I'll go with the consensus, obviously, but it's a joke. We have two just-above-stub articles. Karlov's main article can easily cover his assassination right now. Everything else is CRYSTAL. The Rambling Man (talk) 23:08, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

I suggest we wait until both articles become more relevant and flushed-out, than suggest a merge. CaptainGummyBearz (talk) 23:52, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

We're done now, this is as much as it gets. There's about a 50% repeat from the bio to the assassination article. There's no good reason at all for two C-class articles about precisely the same subject to co-exist. Merge time. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:34, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

At this point, I disagree, actually. I think we can easily have both articles. This one should have more about his role in North Korea for example.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:39, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Two C-class articles, one of which is a subset of the other? I think you're joking!! The Rambling Man (talk) 10:07, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

He's notable for his entire career, his role in North Korea for example, etc. Wikipedia is a work in progress; the article is fine as it is and will no doubt be expanded in future. Enough!Zigzig20s (talk) 00:40, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

This article has been expanded considerably and really I don't see any need for a merge. —Мандичка^YO 😜 01:36, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Timezone

It should be noted in the article that the assassination occurred @ ~8:15p local time, or TRT (GMT+3) — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobertZFord (talk • contribs) 03:09, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

See also and source

i removed the links to the other 2 murdered diplomats. one could just as easily place other recent assassinations, or deaths in turkey. the other 2 were from long ago, completely different circumstances, and there is nothing particularly notable about a large nation having lost diplomats. i replaced it with "russia soviet relations" which probably should be in the body of the article, and which is directdly connected with this event. i also removed:

• "Andrei Karlov is the fourth Russian ambassador who died in the line of duty."

for a lack of a source. Mercurywoodrose (talk) 03:46, 20 December 2016 (UTC)