Talk:Alicia Esteve Head

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This article has been mentioned by a media organization:

David W. Dunlap (March 13 2012). "The Brief Return of 'the Woman Who Wasn't There'". The New York Times. Retrieved March 14, 2012. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)

Section sizes

Section size for Alicia Esteve Head (7 sections)
Section name	Byte count	Section total
(Top)	1,853	1,853
Background	2,966	2,966
World Trade Center Survivors' Network	5,243	5,243
Claims disputed	2,921	2,921
Aftermath	2,426	2,426
References	28	28
External links	674	674
Total	16,111	16,111

09/2007 comment

This person's name is in the popular press while her scandal plays out. By all indications, she falsely claimed to be a survivor of the 9/11 attacks. Many people will read about her, and then consult this Wikipedia article to learn more. It is hardly the time to remove the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.233.42.46 (talk) 13:03, 29 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

CSD

The person this article is about is the subject of multiple non-trivial reliable sources: New York Times, USA Today. ~a (user • talk • contribs) 20:18, 27 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough, but much that is reported in the media is not suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia. The article is certainly in need of cleanup. I dislike the lack of definitive information. First possibility is that the woman has likely merely made a fool of herself loudly and in public, second that she believes she speaks the truth, third that she does. Michaelbusch 22:20, 27 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is definitive information. Her "fiancee/husband" has never heard of her (a fact that is sourced) and her employer has never heard of her (a fact that is sourced). ~a (user • talk • contribs) 12:40, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The NY Times article says that "Dave" died in the 9/11 attack, so the verb tense used in your comment is questionable. It would be more accurate to state the article says that friends and family of "Dave" say they have never heard of her. Edison 13:56, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Corrections

I removed the word "false" under the Appearances heading as too presumptuous. Also made a small grammatical correction ("at colleges" for "in colleges") in the same sentence. 24.125.221.167 01:50, 28 September 2007 (UTC)Randy[reply]

Coatrack

This article about an otherwise not very notable person appeared only after a New York Times "expose." It appears to be a WP:COATRACK and may be contrary to WP:BLP principles. Not every newspaper article justifies an encyclopedia article. If her claimed 9/11 experiences and volunteer work were not encyclopedic before the NY Times expose, then they probably are not after the expose. See also WP:NOT#NEWS.Edison 14:01, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Her history is the reason why she had the position of the organizations presidency. Becuase her history may be false she was removed. I think it is entry-worthy when one of the largest WTC Survivor organizations has a major scandal. It calls into question compesation to survivors or other forms of public attention towards them. This event has a real impact on the metropolitan community! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Forcefieldmaker87 (talk • contribs) 20:22, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Weaseling in lead

Um, rambling sentences akin to "some people said some things she said were somehow different from something else" fail the WP:WEASEL guideline. They convey absolutely nothing useful or meaningful. -- 67.98.206.2 20:47, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And, no they are not supported by the ref, either, my four legged friend. The word "some" appears in the article but once. You are creating a meaningless WP:SYNTHesis here. -- 67.98.206.2 20:49, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ref "some of which were contradicted by some of those involved. Additionally, some people close to Head said she had made changes to her account of events in recent weeks..."

These are not weasel words. They are a fair summary of what it contained in the Times article without going into too much detail. Please read the original Times article that you keep removing the link to.

Not only could the Times not verify the substance of Head's story, people they spoke to, named individuals from the family of the person she said was her fiance/husband to Merrill Lynch actually contradicted parts of her story. Likewise, named individuals in the article say that she made changes to her story at certain times. This is certainly worth noting in the article, as a summary of the ref, and does not fall foul of WP:WEASEL Harry was a white dog with black spots 20:51, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't remove the any links, I removed its duplication (it's there twice, you see). You are actually the one who reverted my wikification of the link. You should just say "named individuals from the family of the person she said was her fiance/husband and Merrill Lynch actually contradicted parts of her story" not say "some people said some things." Again, see the relevant guideline. There are better ways of saying what you are trying to say here that's not confusing to the reader. -- 67.98.206.2 20:57, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the direct quote, from the third page of the NY Times article, that supports the above words:

"In recent days, though, an associate of Ms. Head’s, Janice Cilento, a social worker who is on the board of the Survivors’ Network, said that Ms. Head told a different version of her life with Dave, relating now that they had only known each other for a few months and that their relationship had been kept secret from his family. Previously, Ms. Cilento said, Ms. Head had told her that she knew Dave’s family well, and that the couple had been living together for some time.

Most recently, last weekend, Ms. Cilento said, Ms. Head told her in a phone conversation that her relationship with Dave had been a fantasy.

In fact, the family and several friends of Dave, whose full name is being withheld by The Times to protect their privacy, said they had never heard of Tania Head. His mother said none of her son’s e-mail messages had indicated such a relationship. Both his parents and his roommate, with whom he lived in Manhattan, said they knew of no trip that he had taken to Hawaii." Harry was a white dog with black spots 20:54, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No ref can support ignoring style guidelines. -- 67.98.206.2 20:57, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well I have padded out the lead by adding the extraneous information above. In any event, you could have changed it to the wording you suggest above rather than simply deleting it. This is a brand new article and is very much a work in progress. Harry was a white dog with black spots 21:04, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Much better. Pretty much the way I would have put it myself tomorrow, but for today, well... I've been 3RR blocked on the slightest conceit before, even without going over 3RR. IP editors get no respect. -- 67.98.206.2 21:17, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Update

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/30/nyregion/30survivor.html

Another source: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/27/national/main3305007.shtml I don't see any new information in it, but it lends further notability.--Father Goose 06:41, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

TV documentary

Tania Head is due to be the subject of Cutting Edge on Channel 4 on 11 September 2008 [1]. HTH HAND —Phil | Talk 21:08, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hopefully Channel 4 will make it available on 4OD, which will help in getting more details for this page in the future. As of now though, it's being shown (again) on the +1 channel. Smoothy (talk) 21:05, 11 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm watching it on 4od now, so it can indeed be used to expand the article. 86.2.38.112 (talk) 18:05, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

According to the documentary, Head was in Barcelona in September 2001. This information was published in Vanguardia in October 2007, and added to the article at that time.[2] Any idea why that info was removed? I have replaced it provisionally. Scolaire (talk) 11:21, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

An IP or IPs are continuing to delete this info without edit summaries. Does anybody have any guess why? Scolaire (talk) 19:30, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Does anyone know when the TV documentary was made? I've just watched it, and it says that Tanya Head, through her lawyers, declined to comment for the documentary. Then we find out that an email was sent alledging that she committed suicide in February. Was the show made before or after February? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.197.195.132 (talk) 20:33, 13 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just recently the Investigation Discovery channel ran a documentary on Alicia Esteve Head called The woman who wasn't there. This should be mentioned in the article.71.185.62.245 (talk) 04:40, 18 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Tania Head, born Alicia Esteve Head

Someone has just removed the person's real name: Alicia Esteve Head. Since this name is given in the external references I have reinstated it. Format (talk) 06:40, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Add the reference, don't just keep saying it over and over. The removal is valid since it is currently unreferenced, you are the one reverting without adding a reference or a quote to support it. Spend 1/10 of the time you already expended on reverting and type in a reference. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 19:29, 9 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Edit semi-protected

{{Edit semi-protected}} constant IP vandalism

The template you used is actually to request an edit be made to a protected page. If you want to request that the page be protected, please go to WP:RPP. However, I don't think page qualifies--it's only be vandalized twice in the past week, and usually more frequent vandalism is necessary to get semi-protection. However, if the same level persists for longer, or if the frequency increases, feel free to go request protection. I mean, you can actually request it now, and it might be approved, but my opinion is it won't/shouldn't be. Qwyrxian (talk) 11:38, 9 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This article has been vandalized continuously since October 2010. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 19:30, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Father Goose (talk) 08:41, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Alicia Estev Head → Alicia Esteve Head — missing "E" per spelling in sources 23:21, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Circular citations

The first cite ([1]) which is used three times in the article, is a blog post that itself cites wikipedia for its facts. This cite should be removed and replaced with a primary source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.226.153.28 (talk) 19:31, 14 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of sourced content

This is getting out of hand here. Two IPs have been repeatedly removing sourced information regarding the facts that Head's claims have been exposed as fraudulent ([3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8]). Rather than getting too involved in this mess, I am taking this discussion here to see if anyone can voice their opinion on this matter here. Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 03:59, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have submitted a report to semi-protect this article. --Webclient101 (talk) 04:08, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Got it. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 04:09, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As far as the photo is concerned, the IPs seem to have a valis point. I don't see how we can claim fair-use when someone could take a new picture of her. It doesn't have to be easy to do, just possible. Meters (talk) 04:26, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

tagged image with di-replaceable fair use-notice Meters (talk) 04:39, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I am concerned about this most recent edit. I believe that needs to have a reliable source. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 04:42, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I filed a report at the BLP noticeboard. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 06:15, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

One of the IPs insist that the Spanish source for her job in Barcelona is disproven, but that claim does not have a reliable source. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 07:41, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of historical fact

My whole line about Tania Heads lies about being rescued by the hero Welles Crowther, the red-bandanaman who rescued 12 people but died himself was removed because: ""it was not well written"". Which naieve left-winger did this?? So this article is now incomplete. Typical Wikipedia. A historical fact was placed and then removed. Please block me forever. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.120.23.150 (talk) 04:06, 25 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Holocaust Survivor Syndrome?

Her story reminds me of people who've claimed to have been Holocaust Survivors that witnessed or even survived homicidal gassings or people turned into lamp shades. --197.228.45.139 (talk) 08:35, 1 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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SEARCH: site:lavanguardia.com Tania Head Alicia Esteve

site:lavanguardia.com Tania Head Alicia Esteve .... 0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 23:05, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Renovation company

I see yet another claim about a known liar. Unless I see three reliable sources, I don't believe it. Bearian (talk) 02:00, 14 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]