Talk:Ali Alexander

Letting you know about WP:BLPN discussion...

Here you go. WP:BLPN. Jdphenix (talk) 15:24, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

I was initially confused. The discussion I linked involves the article's subject, but only tangentially. Jdphenix (talk) 15:35, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Describing Alexander as a felon in lede

I think it's WP:UNDUE to describe Alexander as a felon in the lede, as it's not what he's primarily known for. However, two editors have recently added words to that effect. It seems a consensus is needed one way or another. To include or not include? AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 15:17, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

I tend to agree (with not including), because the lead sentence already has three items in that list, not because it's not necessarily notable. Jdphenix (talk) 15:25, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

I think it's more notable than "social media personality" or "conspiracy theorist." I would restore felon to the lede in place of "social media personality," as it is more relevant to what Alexander is. Far fewer people know of him for having been on Twitter than for being the organizer of the recent assault on the Capitol. 68.197.244.146 (talk) 14:53, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

His felony conviction is entirely unrelated to the Capitol attack. (It would be pretty remarkable if it were related; I've never heard of someone being tried and convicted in a week.) AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 16:14, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

What AleatoryPonderings said. His felony convictions predate any of the stuff he's notable for, and are sidenotes in the RS coverage of him rather than a focus. GorillaWarfare (talk) 17:17, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

I agree that it should not be included in the lead. He is not notable for being a felon. GorillaWarfare (talk) 17:09, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

While I agree committing fraud isn't what he'd *like* to be known for User: GorillaWarfare, it is in fact a reality of his pattern of behavior. There are several citations referencing questionable financial behavior to fund some of of his initiatives. There is a duty to inform the public that they should heed caution before financially contributing to his endeavors, and after January 6, 2021, reasonable minds can conclude putting forth this warning is important. Kings Indian Defense (talk) 02:24, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm sure he wouldn't like to be known for it either, but he also isn't known for it. There is a duty to inform the public that they should heed caution before financially contributing to his endeavors, and after January 6, 2021, reasonable minds can conclude putting forth this warning is important. We are an encyclopedia, and this is not how we make content decisions. If reliable sources mostly discuss his fraudulent activities then we can describe him as known for them, but they don't—they describe his far-right activism and conspiracy theories. The fraud convictions from the late 2000s are typically a sidenote in the RS. GorillaWarfare (talk) 02:30, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

There is a duty to inform the public that they should heed caution before financially contributing to his endeavors

Is it really that difficult to understand that such advocacy, no matter how well justified (and I happen to share the view) is the complete opposite of Wikipedia's charter and rules? If you want to warn people, go do it on social media, not here. Here we should act like disinterested aliens with no involvement with or opinions about the subject's endeavors.

reasonable minds can conclude putting forth this warning is important

Not on Wikipedia, they can't. Jibal (talk) 08:07, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Reference errors

Nightscream, your recent edits have introduced a large number of reference errors. Could you please fix them? AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 20:52, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I noticed. I'm in the process of doing so now, as you can see from the History page. Nightscream (talk) 20:54, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

Done. Nightscream (talk) 21:02, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

Recent edits

Hi Kings Indian Defense. Can we talk about the edits you're trying to make to this article? It's not very clear what changes you're trying to make and it would be useful to talk about them here. Jdphenix (talk) 02:12, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Sure Jdphenix. I removed the citations of the Salon articles in both 'Republican Fraud Scemes' and 'notable quotables' sections that I had tried to add. I also swapped out the citations about the fraud convictions to already referenced citations, in the infobox. I think this designation is warranted, as there's questions around the financing of his Stop the Steal shenanigans and where that money is going, as well as accepting contributions without a registered organization. (His PayPal, Venmo, Cash App accounts were terminated as a result). Kings Indian Defense (talk) 02:19, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

He is not known for his fraud convictions, which predate his notability. If his activities with Stop the Steal end up being determined to have involved fraudulent behavior, I could see potentially adding something about it to the lead and/or infobox, but there are no reliable sources to verify this that I've seen. GorillaWarfare (talk) 02:23, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

🤔 It's been a few days since I last looked up news on the subject here, but let me take a quick look and get back to you. Jdphenix (talk) 02:37, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

:: Kings Indian Defense, I found a few verifiable sources that indicate that PayPal, et. al. removed him from their platforms for violations of their Acceptable Use Policy.

Is there another verifiable source (or more, preferably) that specifically ties those actions of PayPal, et. al. with fraudulent behavior, or criminal activity and Stop the Steal? Multiple verifiable sources to that effect would be the minimum needed to consider adding such content, in my opinion. Jdphenix (talk) 02:55, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Kings Indian Defense has been indefinitely blocked from editing this page and the article (see Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User:Kings Indian Defense disrupting Ali Alexander article). GorillaWarfare (talk) 03:02, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

I see. Thank you for letting me know. Jdphenix (talk) 03:09, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

References

(edit conflict) I've been keeping an eye out for new sourcing but haven't seen much in the past week. An article by Salon (no consensus on reliability at WP:RSP#Salon) and one by Media Matters for American (same status at WP:RSP#Media Matters for America). GorillaWarfare (talk) 02:56, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Makes sense. I'm honestly inclined to stick to a hard line stance of "until there's a conviction that directly relates to Stop the Steal, let's not". Jdphenix (talk) 03:04, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Alexander or Stone?

I'm pretty sure Roger Stone actually created "Stop The Steal" for Trump before he even won the presidency bc he wanted to created chaos. That is why Trump even said during the run for 2016 that "if I lose you know the election is rigged". I DID read that what I said is true, just not sure if it was right before 2016 or even earlier when Trump considered running. I think it might have been in the Documentary called "Get Me Roger Stone" WeeBoo63 (talk) 04:08, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

I don't have access to that documentary to verify one way or another, unfortunately. There are quite a few sources that describe Alexander as the founder, but if you find solid contradictory sourcing we could incorporate it. GorillaWarfare (talk) 14:22, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Stone bought the StopTheSteal domain around the time of the 2016 GOP primary. That's not identical to the Stop The Steal LLC. Jibal (talk) 08:27, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

"Married her brother"

The allegation that Ilhan Omar married her brother (which first appeared in a 2016 discussion-board post) has been the subject of various investigations. None has uncovered corroborating evidence, according to cited reliable sources, which makes it a "baseless theory". PRRfan (talk) 01:58, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

Antisemitism

Alexander seems to have endorsed Kanye West’s antisemitic comments and said that if any platform doesn’t defend him, it’s because “they too fear or align with Jewish Power.” [1] 2604:2D80:6984:3800:0:0:0:97A (talk) 00:45, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

He endorsed Catholic integralist style blasphemy laws in Ye Infowars interview

Watch the interview the part where he’s in it he endorses it. Include it as part of his extreme views. Solidarityandfreedom (talk) 23:31, 1 December 2022 (UTC)