Talk:Algorithmic composition

algorithmic composition in art & design?

I've seen discussions on how math sequences are used in art, but I don't know the name for this subject. I came across this article and was hoping I'd find a link to that concept here since the principles are very similar. One of the examples I came across said something like "a fibonnacci sequence is sometimes used when knitting sweaters to produce the most aesthetically pleasing stripes." Please link to this type of subject matter if you know what I'm talking about! --geekyßroad^{. meow?} 04:34, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

More artists

BT? (Brian Transeau) 81.208.166.201

There are heaps of other examples: Curtis Bahn Herbert Brun Charles Dodge Paul Doornbusch Don Malone Paul Lansky Larry Polansky etc etc etc etc

From my limited knowledge I agree with some of those names. But *why* are people in this list? Everyone who's touched Max/MSP could be argued to be an Algorithmic Composer. The fact that someone is notable enough to have a WP entry should not be sufficient for them to be listed here without verifiable references and relation to algorithmic composition.

Without reasonable inclusion criteria this is going to degenerate into Wikipedia:Listcruft. A better way forward would be to construct a narrative that contextualises key composers with respect to their *relevance* to the subject and *notability* as *algorithmic composers*. Perhaps a "significant people in the history of algorithmic composition" could be better than a list? Ross bencina (talk) 22:30, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Games that use algorithmic composition

I've taken this out of the article for the moment:

A more advanced implementation of this is present in the music subsystem of Microsoft's Xbox games console - the game plays variations on a human composer's theme, but varies its improvisations based on real-time events in the game (so, for example, the music sounds more staccato and dramatic during fight scenes, but is gentler and more mellow afterward). The effect has been seen in many video-games since the Nintendo 64, the first system with a large enough memory and fast enough ROM retrieval methods to make such a change in the flow and sound of the music possible. One of the first to adopt such sound was The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time where approaching important areas raised the volume and pitch of the sound. Another game notable for similar uses of sound is Fable on the Xbox. Similar systems were also used in games such as Command & Conquer: Generals, Splinter Cell and Freedom Fighters.

It is very unclear to the point of containing no useful information. Problems include:

• The first sentence about the XBox seems to be talking about a specific game, but does not say which game. Algorithmic composition is not a feature of the XBox hardware (though certainly the XBox is capable of performing algorithmic composition; this is not an exceptional quality, though; see next point).
• The second sentence is demonstrated to be untrue earlier on in the paragraph where Ballblazer is discussed. The processing power required for algorithmic music was well met long ago; it was certainly not waiting around for the N64 to come out, and there have been plenty of programs that could do realtime improvisation in the past long, long, long before that system.
• Does Ocarina of Time actually use algorithmic music, or does it just adjust the volume? It's very unclear by this description what it has done that was algorithmic. Similarly there is no description of why or how the other games mentioned use algorithmic composition.

I'm not opposed to the material from the passage moving back into the article, but it needs to be revised. I can't gather any information from any of it as it is. - Rainwarrior 07:37, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

For what it's worth, changing the volume (and even transitioning between tracks) is a very rudimentary, degenerate form of algorithmic composition. The overall musical experience of Mario 1 is highly variable depending on the pattern of deaths, power-ups, level completions, low time amounts, and so on. --209.195.111.182 (talk) 13:53, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Broken Link

I've taken the following out because it's a broken link:

• Paper A paper that surveys the algorithmic composition field

It's not broken. I had no trouble reading it. ---- CharlesGillingham (talk) 05:12, 29 June 2009 (UTC). I agree, it's OK.

More Software

Should the following music generation packages not also be added to the page?

• The Continuator
• SuperWillow
• SongSmith —Preceding unsigned comment added by Supertonsil (talk • contribs) 09:45, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

No. In fact there should be far fewer links. See WP:NOTDIR and WP:ELNO --Biker Biker (talk) 15:49, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Ok then why not delete the other links? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Supertonsil (talk • contribs) 10:09, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Indeed. Take a look at WP:BOLD then go delete them. --Biker Biker (talk) 10:37, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Heres another link: http://www.fakemusicgenerator.com

Someone should make a page listing links... 00:20, 10 September 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Karatekid1998 (talk • contribs)

Since the awesome links to composition software were removed and haven't migrated elsewhere, here's a link for future surfers: https://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Algorithmic_composition&oldid=708996299#Software

Unreferenced -- No inline citations. Reads like original research

(I find this same comment on most of the articles you have about computer music subjects. "Original research" is not a disease; it's an indication that the writers of an article actually know something about a subject which is rapidly developing. These articles are helpful and illuminating; the nittering about 'citations' is simply misplaced. [Forrest Curo, San Diego, US]) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:30A:2E73:9920:6AA3:C4FF:FE7C:6AF6 (talk) 05:32, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

I've tagged this {{Unreferenced}} because there are no inline citations and there are numerous POV issues (I've tagged a few, just to get started).

The whole Models for algorithmic composition section presents a framework that could be considered original research unless it is sufficiently cross-referenced to established frameworks.

I already raised above the issue that notable composers shouldn't be included here unless they are notable for using algorithmic methods or their algorithmic music is in itself notable (some of the currently listed composers are known for the electroacoustic music, electronic music, etc).

Personally I have a problem with including Chance Processes and Aleatoric music under the banner of algorithmic music. Aleatoric music already has a well developed page. Although any mention of Cage here should probably cite HPSCHD.

Scope and boundaries need to be drawn. The article is fuzzy and needs to map the perimeter. I would suggest (although some will disagree) that the definition needs start with: A computer has to be involved. There are other names for music that involves following rules or processes. Can we get some source definitions of Algorithmic Music to start with (music dictionaries). In The Computer Music Tutorial (Roads 1995) begins the section on Algorithmic Music by quoting Ada Lovelace. E.g. "might act upon other things besides number... the Engine might compose elaborate and scientific pieces of music of any degree of complexity or extent" (abridged here http://www.computerhistory.org/babbage/adalovelace/) Roads goes on to say "Behind modern efforts in algorithmic composition is a long tradition of viewing music procedurally. A definitive history of this tradition has yet to be written." After a survey through the ages beginning with Guido of Arezzo in 1026, Roads appears to land at Lejaren Hiller as the first concerned specifically with Algorithmic Composition.

Ross bencina (talk) 23:19, 21 January 2012 (UTC)