Talk:Alfred J. Goulding

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Correcting the date of birth

Here is the evidence the DOB listed as 1897 is wrong.

1. An Alfred John Goulding was born in Richmond Victoria in 1885. There is no one of similar name born in Victoria in 1897.^[1]

2. The manifest for SS Sierra, arriving in Honolulu in Sept 1907, lists members of Pollard’s Lilliputian Opera Company. In addition to Daphne Trott (Pollard) and her sisters, an A. Goulding, aged 19 is listed.

3. His tombstone states DOB as 1887 ^[2]

4. IMDB states DOB as 1884.

5. Anecdotal evidence – there are numerous mentions of Alf Goulding as stage manager for Pollard’s Lilliputian Opera Theatre in Australia on Trove. In addition, when former Pollard performer Teddy McNamara died of pneumonia in Hollywood in 1928, other known ex Pollard performers were at his funeral (Snub Pollard, Daphne Pollard, Billy Bevan) in addition to Goulding^[3]

Nickm57 (talk) 12:07, 12 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Nickm57: - thanks for this. Is the BDM info 100% the same person? Why would this date be used and not the date from his actual tombstone? Lugnuts ^{Precious bodily fluids} 13:48, 12 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes - interesting situation. So, while I think the BDM citation is him, lets use the headstone in place as its easily verifiable.Nickm57 (talk) 01:35, 13 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

In genealogy the documents closest to the event are more accurate. Tombstones and obituaries are the least accurate, since farthest from the birth. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 04:40, 13 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks both for your work on this article. Lugnuts ^{Precious bodily fluids} 09:53, 13 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

References

U.S., Social Security Death Index, 1935-2014

This matches the birth index. You have to present a birth certificate when you apply for social security.

Name Alfred Goulding

SSN 557-12-1172

Last Residence Los Angeles, 90028, Los Angeles, California, USA

Born 26 Jan 1885

Died Apr 1972

State (Year) SSN issued California - Before 1951

Oh good catch, I hadn't thought of that at all. Except... I don't think that new photo is of him!!Nickm57 (talk) 05:37, 13 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Let me double check the image. God, married so many times. He couldn't be alone for long. I bet he lied about his age to each of his wives. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 05:40, 13 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have a paid account at Ancestry.com but most of the documents are free at the LDS website Familysearch.com. Registration is free and access to documents are free, they want you to work on genealogy. Best tool for biography research. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 05:44, 13 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I switched to the image from IMDB, I guess we need a third to see which of the two is correct, maybe both just 20 years apart. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 05:49, 13 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Marriages

The IMDB lists 3 completely different wives!Nickm57 (talk) 08:03, 13 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Some may have been married before, do they have the same first names? I will load the marriage and divorce papers to Wikimedia Commons. I have the WWI draft loaded and the 1920 marriage, you can check them to make sure I got it right. I used their maiden names, based on their father's surname. Goulding identifies himself as a director in the paperwork and born in Australia, so we have the right person. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 17:04, 13 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

He was deceptive on his marriage license forms, listing himself as a "bachelor" when he legally was a widower. It is possible that he had children with other women, he certainly had the opportunity. Maybe we can add a note about other possible relationships listed in IMDB. I think we should stick to the relationships where we have a supporting document, either marriage or divorce, or a newspaper article mentioning a spouse, like his obituary did. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 18:08, 13 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The only gap now is between 1941 and 1952 and I am sure with a few more hours of research I will find one more wife. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 20:12, 13 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

He was a serial monogamist. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 23:30, 13 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Australia, Birth Index, 1788-1922

It matches the names of his parents from one of his marriage records. The only time the registration year is wrong is if it is a late December birth and the paperwork is recorded in January of the following year.

Name Alfred John Goulding

Birth Date Abt 1885

Birth Place Richmond, Victoria

Registration Year 1885

Registration Place Victoria, Australia

Father Francis Thomas Goulding

Mother Margaret Walsh

Elsa Goulding?

I can't find any evidence of a singer of this name. Can anyone else?Nickm57 (talk) 00:40, 14 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Let me look for the Australian census. His father's writings in The Age in 1933 mention a daughter and another brother.

Images

The old image was wrong, the ears did not match the Findagrave image or the the IMDB image. I will delete it from Commons.

Talk:Ray Milland

Can everyone who contributed to solving the Goulding conundrum please come to Talk:Ray Milland and help decide which wording best explains the birth date discrepancy in that biography.

[1] BDM Victoria Births, Deaths & Marriages, Victoria

[2] ttp://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=22075

[3] [1]

[1]

[2]

[3]