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Requested move

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was Albert of Riga.

Albrecht von Buxthoeven → Albert of Riga– This individual is most often known in English simply as "Bishop Albert", or as "Albert of Riga" or "Albert of Livonia". The current title is not even the most commonly used in German, let alone English. Olessi 05:46, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

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Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" or other opinion in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~

  • Support as originator. Olessi 05:46, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. "Bishop Albert of Riga" is more common than "Bishop Albert of Livonia," and, despite the overwhelming preference of the sources surveyed below for "Bishop Albert," I think it is more appropriate in general to give the names of persons without any titles (though this is certainly not the practice of English Wikipedia when it comes to Popes—we should probably follow the example of apparently every other language Wikipedia except for Portuguese, and remove "Pope" from the titles of those artcicles, too, keeping it in parentheses afterwards if needed for disambiguation). Wareh 19:17, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Right. I wasn't suggesting "Bishop Albert" as a title, merely that he is usually known without the "of Bux..." added. If you'd like to suggest changes to the papal naming system, Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Western clergy) would be the best place to start, I think. Olessi 02:37, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

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Add any additional comments

Here is a series of Google Web and Google Books searches to help determine how this individual has usually been referred to in English. Along with the simple "Bishop Albert", the searches for "Albert of Riga" and "Albert of Livonia" give by far the most relevant data. Names including a variation of "Bexhövede" have been used much less frequently. Olessi 05:46, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

of Riga

  1. Albert of Riga
  2. Albert von Riga
  3. Albrecht of Riga
  4. Albrecht von Riga

Bishop Albert (+ "Riga" for disambiguation)

Bishop Albert (+ "Livonia" for disambiguation)

Albert of Livonia

  • Google (several legitimate English uses, a few mirrors)
  • Google Books (a dozen English books)

Buxhoeveden

  1. Albert of Buxhoeveden
  2. Albert von Buxhoeveden
    • Google (~20 links, mixture of tourism, mirrors, and German links)
    • Google Books (3 English books, the rest in German)
  3. Albrecht of Buxhoeveden
  4. Albrecht von Buxhoeveden

Buxthoeven

  1. Albert of Buxthoeven
  2. Albert von Buxthoeven
  3. Albrecht of Buxthoeven
  4. Albrecht von Buxthoeven (the current title)

Buxtehude

  1. Albert of Buxtehude
  2. Albert von Buxtehude
  3. Albrecht of Buxtehude
  4. Albrecht von Buxtehude

Buxhövden

  1. Albert of Buxhövden
  2. Albert von Buxhövden
    • Google (some decent English references, the rest mirrors)
    • Google Books (1 English book, the rest German)
  3. Albrecht of Buxhövden
  4. Albrecht von Buxhövden

Appeldern

  1. Albert of Appeldern
  2. Albert von Appeldern
    • Google (a few English links)
    • Google Books (a few English books, the rest in foreign languages)
  3. Albrecht of Appeldern
  4. Albrecht von Appeldern

A sampling of some individual works:

  • Catholic Encyclopedia: "Bishop Albert"
  • Encyclopedia Britannica: "Albert I of Livonia"
  • Encyclopedia Columbia: "Albert of Livonia"
  • Eric Christiansen's The Northern Crusades: "Albert of Buxtehude"
  • Desmond Seward's The Monks of War: "Albrecht von Buxhövden"
  • Geoffrey Barraclough's The Origins of Modern Germany: "Albrecht of Appeldern"
  • Clarence A. Manning's The Forgotten Republics: "Bishop Albert"
  • William Urban's The Teutonic Knights: "Albert von Buxhoevden"

Olessi 05:46, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

References

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It seems like Google has enough hits for references on Albert of Riga, so where are the references in the article? I am downgrading all assessments for this article due to lack of (in-line) references (and perhaps an image or two). Talk/♥фĩłдωəß♥\Work 20:16, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Conflict over who

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I've been working on the history of Riga. Lo and behold, I come across History of the Christian Church, by Wilhelm Moeller, Andrew Rutherfurd, Gustav Kawerau, John Henry Freese, which specifically states "Albert (of Stade, not of Apeldern or Buxhöwden)." To be integrated into existing content at some point. VЄСRUМВА  ☎  14:46, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. Problem solved, the source is wrong in this regard. VЄСRUМВА  ☎  14:52, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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