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Miss California

[edit]

There are two American-sourced quotes regarding Alan Duncan MP's statement regarding Miss California. Neither have citations, or state in what publication they have been published. Although this may merit immediate removal (see: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography), the name of the sources was stated. I have therefore left them tagged with [citation needed].Zach Beauvais (talk) 08:40, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Removed from article

[edit]

On the 24 April 2009 edition of television programme Have I Got News For You, Duncan was asked his opinion of Miss California USA 2009 Carrie Prejean publicly opposing same-sex marriage during the 2009 Miss USA pageant. Duncan replied, "If you read that Miss California has been murdered, you will know it was me, won't you?"[1]

Duncan's comments were condemned by various groups including the anti-homosexual activist and Public Advocate president Eugene Delgaudio who stated: "Public Advocate is concerned when government officials from abroad advocate murdering our citizens. The British ambassador in Washington should be sent home immediately and the president of the United States should sever diplomatic relations for a period of time.”[2] The pastor at Prejean's church also condemned Duncan's comments. The Rev. Miles McPherson stated: "You cannot say it was a joke. The man is a leading politician who may soon have great government power. Murder is murder in any context."[2]

Duncan has attempted to mute his initial comments with an interview in The Independent newspaper: "I'm sure she's very beautiful and that if we were to meet we would love each other. I have no plans to kill her. I'll send her a box of chocolates – unpoisoned"[2] Matthew Bell, the reporter for The Independent, commented that Duncan "appeared to have a sense of humour failure."[3]

The BBC responded on 1 May 2009 to a number of complaints to the broadcasting of the comment, playing down the comment as "not serious." [4]

I have removed the above from the article for discussion. The characterisation of this comment made in the context of a television comedy show as a "murder threat" is a violation of WP:BLP and a potential slander. The statement was controversial and may warrant inclusion in this article, but it needs to be dealt with according to the guidelines. Exploding Boy (talk) 19:53, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's apparently caused some controversy and media coverage, and should be included, but the previous section was way over the top and a classic example of undue weight. the wub "?!" 09:54, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the entire section has been restored pretty much word-for-word. I've tried to fix it. A major problem is that for some reason statements and facts are being attributed to references that say nothing of the sort. I've edited the section to make it a little more neutral and less sensational, and to give it less undue weight. Exploding Boy (talk) 16:52, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion of format and content of Miss California remarks section

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1. I removed the following:

Duncan's comments were condemned by various groups including Public Advocate for the United States president Eugene Delgaudio who stated: "Public Advocate is concerned when government officials from abroad advocate murdering our citizens. The British ambassador in Washington should be sent home immediately and the president of the United States should sever diplomatic relations for a period of time.”[2]

I did this for two reasons. First, his comments were not "condemned by various groups"; they were condemned by two people: the leader of the UK Christian Party and the leader of an anti-gay group in the US. Second, Eugene Delgaudio is not the "Public Advocate for the US President," as seems to be suggested in the paragraph above. Third, he made his comments in response to a request from a gay UK news agency, Pink News, of which there is no mention in this paragraph. Fourth, that organization and his remarks are non-notable in this instance. They add unwarranted undue weight to the issue because they're just a bunch of bluster. Heargraves' remarks are notable because he is a UK politician who actually made a complaint about them to the police.

2. I restored the blockquote. According to WP:MOS,

A long quote (more than four lines, or consisting of more than one paragraph, regardless of number of lines) is formatted as a block quotation, which Wikimedia's software will indent from both margins. Exploding Boy (talk) 19:18, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
How can I take these comments seriously considering that you removed the whole section over and over again?--InaMaka (talk) 23:22, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You'll notice that the section is still there. I removed it initially because it was hopelessly POV, but I cleaned it up and reinserted it. So can we please get on with addressing any current objections you have? Exploding Boy (talk) 23:28, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Mention of Hargreaves and his party at all still gives it undue weight. Insofar as the remark was a joke and the complaint to the police wasn't acted on, I've removed names because of undue prominence but left in references. The event isn't even mentioned on Hargeaves' own page. Gmunder (talk 17:30, 9 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Other homosexual Conservative MPs?

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In April, during the episode of Have I Got News For You that Duncan was on, one of the other panelists said to him "you're the only gay Tory MP". He replied "no, there are a few others". Anyone know who? Alfred Kinsey (talk) 11:24, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Demotion from shadow Leader of the House

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Duncan has been demoted from shadow Leader of The House. I will leave it to someone familiar with this page to make all the necessary changes, however there is one source here. 91.104.145.190 (talk) 21:14, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Eh? What?

[edit]

"He is known as one of the most liberal and progressive MPs within the Conservative Party, and is a leading member of the Thatcherite Conservative Way Forward grouping. Now, what sense are we supposed to make of that? Brianboulton (talk) 18:16, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Suspected anachronistic error

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Although it was mentioned in the Daily Telegraph report to which the account is cited, I am suspicious at the description of the Westminster City "council house" that he helped a neighbor to buy as "18th century", as no system of building council housing (social housing in today's parlance) existed in England in the 1700s, although some municipal corporations did own homes that happened to be on land they owned. I would have abstained from mentioning the description which could be a misprint. Might it be more accurate to have described it as "council owned"? (I am not a London resident.)Cloptonson (talk) 14:19, 2 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Why remove?

[edit]

Keep

In March 2018, expressing regret over the fact that WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange remains in the Ecuador embassy, Duncan referred to Assange as a "miserable little worm" during a parliamentary session focusing on the country's foreign affairs.[5]

  • Position on WikiLeaks
  • then is this the place for his remarkable "world order" view on political asylum in a foreign affairs context? also, alas, the dehumanisation of the "opponent" and the notable view on transparency Wakari07 (talk) 20:02, 27 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]


Keep out

  • revert: not really relevant here
  • rvt, this is non-notable & not everyone thinks Assange is admirable, so you [are] not being as negative about Alan Duncan as you think User:Philip Cross
Assange is more commonly described as a fugitive from justice rather than as being an asylum seeker. You will not find your opinion mirrored in any reliable source; the Newsweek article only quotes Assange's tweets, and those do not match it either. (Inserted word above is mine.) Philip Cross (talk) 20:22, 27 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Be he called a fugitive then. I think it has ugly historical antecedents, it is not becoming of a Sir, it is degrading to compare any person to a worm, and that's also why the citation should happen in the article. Still, there's the view on freedom of information, fair trial, transparent government, and foreign relations around all this. Obviously Ecuador is not yet convinced. Wakari07 (talk) 20:38, 27 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
PoliceProfessional.com calls him a "refugee".[6] And News.com.au says in the lead that he has been given political asylum in the Ecuador Embassy in London in 2012.[7] Wakari07 (talk) 20:50, 27 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References

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  1. ^ "Alan Duncan TV appearance causes US-UK spat". politics.co.uk. April 30, 2009. Retrieved 2009-05-01.
  2. ^ a b c d James, Morrison (May 1, 2009). "Embassy Row: Miss California Threat". Washington Times. Retrieved 2009-05-01. Cite error: The named reference "washtimes" was defined multiple times with different content (see the help page).
  3. ^ Bell, Matthew (April 26, 2009). "Matthew Bell: The IoS diary". The Independent. Retrieved 2009-05-01.
  4. ^ http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/response/2009/05/090501_res_haveigotnewsforyou_alanduncan_jf.shtml
  5. ^ Lotto Persio, Sofia (27 March 2018). "Julian Assange Is a 'Miserable Little Worm,' British Minister Says". Newsweek. Retrieved 27 March 2018.
  6. ^ http://www.policeprofessional.com/news.aspx?id=31593
  7. ^ http://www.news.com.au/world/europe/julian-assange-is-a-miserable-little-worm-according-to-british-minister/news-story/35eb89e76834df625ba1333a3bdaf358

Subsection Political Funding

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I question the relevance of this subsection now that Duncan has been retired from Parliament 2 years. It begins that 'since 2006' his constituency association has received..' but I notice the citations are dated before 2010 so surely cannot accurately refer to the funding it received during the remainder of the time he was its MP. To be be worth retaining, the information needs qualifying as to how recently the figure applies and to acknowledge his time as MP is now in the past. Otherwise, should this subsection be 'retired'?Cloptonson (talk) 07:58, 10 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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