Talk:Alain Delon

Issues: Grammar Polishing & The Marković affair

To Wikipedians visiting from past or future, someone please come and sweep this grammar. Bad flow and obvious grammar errors are present.

Second problem, there's two sections of the Marković affair. One is titled as "Marković affair and gangster movies" under "Return to France", and the second one is simply named as "Marković affair" under "Personal Life." I believe they can use some merging, as the respective sections provides different details and is rather confusing. TheeChEese (talk) 02:18, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

This article is far too long

As much as I admire the film career of Alain Delon, one of the all-time cinema greats, I believe this article is far too long, ridiculously so. Surely it was composed by fanatics (including me), not that there's anything wrong with that.;-) I suggest that most of the content under the Influence on his contemporaries and legacy heading, all the way down to the Honours heading, be spun off into new articles. The content presently subsumed under that main heading can be summarized briefly, with the content presently under each subheading summarized, alongside links to the newly-created articles. What do other editors think? Carlstak (talk) 21:30, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

tagging @HELP155: who recently added tons of stuff --FMSky (talk) 22:12, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Bibliography

The page's "Bibliography" section is not the usual list of works by the subject. It's more of a research bibliography, enumerating sources about Delon. The entries seem to lack verifiability, e.g. ISBNs. Wikipedia:WikiProject Bibliographies § Topical bibliographies reads:

The lead of a topical bibliography should establish the notability of the bibliography by citing at least two sources that demonstrate that relevant books, journals and other references on a specific topic have been discussed as a group.
...
Avoid indiscriminate criteria – some of the most popular challenges to bibliographies or lists of works are based on the Wikipedia policies Wikipedia is not a directory and Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Well-defined context helps counter those challenges.

—Bagumba (talk) 04:05, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Cleanup of "Influence on his contemporaries and legacy" section needed

This section (especially the Cinematic influence subsection) is overstuffed, and may have a lot of original research. There are a lot of films and other things listed that may not actually be inspired by Delon. Needs a lot of cleanup. Natg 19 (talk) 17:04, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

That's pretty much what I said above. I'm going to do some trimming. Carlstak (talk) 17:41, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

DBP

I don’t doubt that bad sources can be found, especially in English, that claim Delon fought in the Battle of Dien Bien Phu. I don’t doubt that some of these are otherwise good…although if memory serves, the chronology of the Scotsman is a little suspect.

But why are there no good French ones? Qwirkle (talk) 18:13, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Eh? I'm not sure I'm following your line of reasoning. We go by reliable sources, not your memory. With your edit summary, "And yet his necrologie from Le Monde does not… " for your revert, you seem to be implying that because Le Monde does not mention the disputed information that Delon fought in the battle of Dien Bien Phu, then it cannot have happened. I would say that does not follow and is faulty reasoning. With this post you seem to be implying that I, who reverted your revert, don't have proper respect for the references from French sources. Perhaps you missed this one of my edits to the article. Quote: "And how can we not include this fantastic, so French, obituary from Le Monde? It would be a crime."

The Guardian states that "At 17, he joined the French navy, serving in Indochina as a parachutist during the siege of Dien Bien Phu." Deadline says "Delon fought in the battle of Dien Bien Phu in 1954".

But the best source I could find is a journalistic one, written in Vietnamese by Tran Vu. It says (please forgive the wall of text):

On January 23, 1953, Alain Delon officially joined the French Navy, attending sailor training at the Centre de Formation de la Marine (CFM) in Pont-Réan, 364 km south of Paris, in the city of Rennes. This training course taught him how to row canals, operate barges and motorboats, sail and practice shooting. Alain Delon was assigned as a Fusil Mitrailleur (medium machine gunner).

Alain Delon then attended the Navy's communications course at the École des Transmissions des Bormettes, in La Londe-les-Maures near Hyères, 866 km from Paris in the extreme south of France. Then went to Indochina...

As a rookie who had not yet served on warships, Alain Delon served in the CPAS Arsenal Guard Company (Compagnie de Protection de l'Arsenal de Saigon), with the task of guarding the Bason Naval Arsenal near Bach Dang wharf.

Later in 1966, Alain Delon starred in the film Les Centurions (Lost Command) with veteran actor Anthony Quinn and volcanic actress Claudia Cardinale. At the beginning of the film, Alain Delon is a paratrooper captain of the 6th Colonial Parachute Battalion captured at Dien Bien Phu with Anthony Quinn playing Lieutenant Colonel Marcel Bigeard. Later, Alain Delon continues to be the captain who has a love affair with Claudia Cardinale in Algiers during the Algerian War. This film caused the misunderstanding that Alain Delon fought at Dien Bien Phu.

In reality, there was no French naval unit in Dien Bien Phu. Alain Delon was a sailor (Matelot), not a sailor (Infanterie de Marine), nor a Marine (Fusilliers Marins). French sailors in the DINASSAUT Assault Naval Divisions (Division Navale d'Assaut - later changed to River Division in the Republic of Vietnam) did not operate in the highlands of North Vietnam.

So during his time in Vietnam, Alain Delon did not fight. His main duty was to guard the gate and sometimes be on duty at night.

It appears you are right, Qwirkle, for all the wrong reasons.;-) Carlstak (talk) 05:33, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Nahhhh. First, let’s toss out the straw man. When I write “Why are there no good French [sources]?” it means exactly that. Here is someone who is claimed to have been at a rather significant event in French history, and yet it is difficult to find a decent source in French that confirms it. That should be a major red flag.

More importantly, why is the article still vectoring misinformation? Qwirkle (talk) 07:28, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Did you read all of what I wrote? Maybe it is difficult to find a decent source in French that confirms it because the French know it's bullshit. I'm waiting to see if anyone else chimes in. Carlstak (talk) 13:35, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Doesn't look like anyone else is going to take this up, so I've removed the dubious claim. Carlstak (talk) 02:32, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

PS: Thanks for pointing this out. Carlstak (talk) 02:34, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

The good news is a tiny piece of a bloated mess is fixed. The bad news is it appears several “reliable” sources might be cribbing from Wikipedia. Qwirkle (talk) 06:28, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

It's a monomaniacal mess alright. It will be a lot of work to clean it up. Carlstak (talk) 14:16, 7 November 2024 (UTC)