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GA Review

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Aid climbing/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Aszx5000 (talk · contribs) 23:31, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: LunaEatsTuna (talk · contribs) 04:25, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Oo this looks interesting! Will review within this month. Template:LunaEatsTunaSig (talk), posted at 04:25, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well that was a lie – sorry. I am going to start the review by tonight though, now that I have the free time. ❧ LunaEatsTuna (talk), writing articles since 2017 – posted at 20:44, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ga review
  • This article switches between metre and meter, make sure to use one for consistency.
 Done. It is written in British English, but some of the American quotes have "meter", but I have changed them for consistency.
  • There is no need for the bullet points in the § Equipment or § Techniques sections; they can easily be converted into paragraphs without hindering readability. They do make a lot of sense in § Grading though.
What you say makes sense, although I did it to try and make these 'technical' sections easier to navigate (i.e. you knew what each paragraph meant as it was a bullet with a label)? However, if you think it does not help, I can change it to paragraphs. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:16, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Aszx5000: Well, I think it just looks a bit non-standard. I am pretty sure we generally reserve bullet point lists only for short listings of items, i.e. WP:BULLETLIST says "they are not appropriate for large paragraphs". I really like your reasoning though, but I reckon it will not be too technically challenging for most who make it that far, given your writing style is really helpful and makes things easy to understand for non-climbing experts. :) ❧ LunaEatsTuna (talk), proudly editing since 2018 (and just editing since 2017) – posted at 23:01, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @LunaEatsTuna, I have only just seen this now! I wonder given that each of these bullet points have a 'heading' (e.g. 'Fixed placement equipment'), should they be sub-sections? Would that be more natural? Sorry for being a pain about this, but I have other articles that use this format for the 'equipment' and 'techniques' sections (e.g. Big wall climbing). thanks. Aszx5000 (talk) 08:55, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Aszx5000: Why not try it and see how it looks? :3 ❧ LunaEatsTuna (talk), proudly editing since 2018 (and just editing since 2017) – posted at 22:31, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@LunaEatsTuna: I have made the change to those two sections (converting bullets into sub-sections). What do you think? Are they too small to be sub-sections? thanks. Aszx5000 (talk) 10:27, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Aszx5000: I do really like that! Great idea on your part. Also, I have left (what should be) my final comments below. ❧ LunaEatsTuna (talk), proudly editing since 2018 (and just editing since 2017) – posted at 16:02, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@LunaEatsTuna:: Great, I think it looks much better than bulleting - thanks for that :). Have made those changes below? thanks. Aszx5000 (talk) 17:10, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Perfect! I am now ready to pass this fantastic article for GA status. Nice work and congrats! Good luck on your future articles :3 ❧ LunaEatsTuna (talk), proudly editing since 2018 (and just editing since 2017) – posted at 11:51, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Description
  • "Traditional aid climbing" no need for the quotation marks.
 Done
  • Same for "Clean aid climbing" (and its many instances).
 Done, except if left 'clean aid climbing' on its first mention to note that it is a term?
  • "which the second removed as they followed after the lead climber" – confusing sentence.
 Done changed to ";these are then removed by the second climber as they make their own ascent."
  • I would rephrase ""Clean aid climbing" avoids" to something like "This method avoids" to avoid repetition with the previous sentence.
 Done changed to "This method therefore avoids"
  • "and has been advocated by some as" – would just do "and has been advocated as" since mentioning some seems unnecessary.
 Done
  • Recommend changing "world-famous" to "renown" or similar to sound less sensationalised.
 Done
History
  • "axles of the Ford cars" > "axles of Ford cars". Also:
  • Wikilink Ford to Ford Motor Company.
 Done both changes
  • "in big wall aid climbing, with the" – the comma is not necessary here. But:
  • I would add a comma to "in one section, he drilled" but this is more optional.
 Done both changes
  • "Reinhold Messner wrote a now famous" > "Reinhold Messner wrote a now-famous"
 Done
Equipment

Low-key I have no concerns with this section.

Techniques
  • "into which they will attach aiders and ascend" > "into which they attach aiders and ascend" to simplify a bit.
 Done
  • "easier with the passage of time (as later teams could use the fixed placements of earlier teams)" > recommend "easier over time as later teams could use the fixed placements of earlier teams." :)
 Done used "can" instead of "could"
  • Is there a reason ""tenuous"" (lol) has quotation marks?
 Done agreed :)
  • The section explaining the process of "Using aiders" will look better split into two (or perhaps more) sentences instead of one long one.
 Done agreed, I have re-worded this so hopefully it is clearer?
  • IMO the sentence beginning with "Unlike free climbers, aid climbers "weight" all their placements" is not really necessary. Also:
  • The rest of the section is a bit confusing for me (maybe I am just being dumb here, but compared to the rest of the fantastic article I find this one harder to grasp). Could you simplify/change around the wording a bit?
 Done agreed for both, and I have re-worded this so hopefully it is more straightforward to read
  • "This is in contrast to traditional climbing where the second (or belayer)" > remove "or belayer" since it is already mentioned earlier.
 Done used "the second climber"?
That looks great! ❧ LunaEatsTuna (talk), proudly editing since 2018 (and just editing since 2017) – posted at 22:32, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Grading
  • "Aid grades can change materially over time due to improvements in aid equipment but also due to the impact of" > "Aid grades can change materially over time due to improvements in aid equipment and the impact of".
 Done
  • Chicken bolts?
 Done, added an explanation in brackets.
  • "McNamara says" – would do "McNamara argues".
 Done
  • I would change instances of "vs." to "as opposed to" as I have not seen a Wikipedia article use "vs." before.
 Done
  • "an intermediate "+" grade" > "an intermediate plus (+) grade" to describe it a bit better.
 Done
  • "specific tricky or strenuous" – remove 'tricky'; I think 'strenuous' does enough justice to the sentence.
 Done
  • "American Alpine Club (republished in 2013)" > "American Alpine Club" because the publication date for it was already mentioned above.
 Done
Milestones

Good.

In film
  • The line for The Inner Wall needs citing.
 Done
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 22:36, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(
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The Nose climbing route on El CapitanThe Sea of Dreams climbing route on El Capitan.
The Nose climbing route on El CapitanThe Sea of Dreams climbing route on El Capitan.
  • Reviewed:
Improved to Good Article status by Aszx5000 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.

Aszx5000 (talk) 13:45, 23 June 2024 (UTC).[reply]

  • Approving nomination. Article is long enough and promoted to GA 1 day before DYK nom. Article is well-sourced, presentable, and copyvio-free (excluding quoted section). Hook is interesting and well-sourced. Image meets criteria. QPQ not needed. Good to go. Thank you for you nomination Aszx5000! Kimikel (talk) 02:35, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Poking my nose in while promoting hooks to prep - this hook seems to not really be about the bolded subject, which is aid climbing. The hook reads as though the bolded article should be Lynn Hill or maybe free climbing. Is there another hook possible that focuses more directly on aid climbing? Premeditated Chaos (talk) 22:21, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Premeditated Chaos:, I understand your point but I offered that hook as the whole affair was one of the biggest moments in modern rock climbing history. Some alternatives are:
ALT1 ... that Jim Bridwell's 1975 aid climbing route, Sea of Dreams, was the first "if you fall, you die" pitch on El Capitan (pictured - same as above) ?
Source: Obituary: Jim "The Bird" Bridwell (1944-2018)
ALT2 ... that the aid climbing routes on the Great Trango Tower (pictured) are some of the longest vertical big wall climbs in the world?
Great Trango Tower, Pakistan
Great Trango Tower, Pakistan
Source: Great Trango Tower: The Biggest Big Wall, Big-Wall Climbing: What is it, Which Wall is the Biggest, and Why is This Climbing Different?
Would any of those work? thanks. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:42, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yup, I think either of those would work nicely. I leave it to the promoter to pick between them; I'll strike ALT0. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 00:42, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Premeditated Chaos, just to clarify, you have reviewed and approved ALT1 & 2? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:16, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
AirshipJungleman29 I know this has been promoted already. Sorry for not responding, I wasn't able to be onwiki for a couple days. Yes, I had reviewed and approved them. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 14:01, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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