Talk:Adrien Agreste

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Adrien Agreste/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: DanielleTH (talk · contribs) 20:45, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

Will review this shortly. DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 20:45, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Comments

Okay, let's get this done!

OL concerns

Don't link:

• Lead
  • homeschooled, model, black cat
• In the main series
  • model, homeschooled, black cat (in caption)

"Reasonably well-written"

• Lead
  • For the sake of link clarity, clarify the elderly man is Master Fu and his father is Gabriel Agreste.
• Concept and creation
  • "Initially, Cat Noir's civilian identity was a character named Félix, who was "an early love interest for Marinette" and who would have had a distant attitude towards her, being included in the "typical cold-and-snobbish-guy anime trope"." Who's being quoted here, Astruc? If so, attribute it to him. If it's just quotes from the source, paraphrase.
  • "Astruc said that while the "contrast" between Félix and Cat Noir's personalities would have "worked well", it would not have provided "great stories" in the long term." Per the policy on quotes, given that 1-2 words here are being quoted and their rather generic, you should paraphrase, but still attribute it to Astruc, since it's his ideas.
  • "Cat Noir's chibi form appearing in the series Miraculous Chibi was created by character designer Angie Nasca while the show "was still in the development phase"; according to Nasca, "the series grew from those initial sketches" portraying "the two main characters"." "The two main characters" should be paraphrased and not quoted. You could say something like "the two main leads" if you'd like.
• In the main series
  • Is it called the Black Cat Miraculous? Other uses of it, including the article, have just called it the Cat Miraculous.
• Critical response
  • "show's original title" and later, "chemistry" should be paraphrased. (Since the latter may be hard to paraphrase, maybe include more of the quote to justify it being in quotations in the first place?)
• Popularity and merchandise
  • "Relatability" should be paraphrased, not quoted.

Images

Papenbrook's image is under the correct license. Both images of Adrien have good rationales and are a good size. Captions are great, especially on the one of Cat Noir, more than justifying its placement.

Overall, great job on the article. Awaiting your changes. DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 02:21, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

@DanielleTH: Hello and thank you for reviewing the article! I have tried to make all the aforementioned changes. All I would like to add is:

- Yes, Astruc was quoted there; I attributed the sentence to him;

- Instead of "the two main characters" or "the two main leads", I wrote "the two lead characters";

- Yes, Adrien's Miraculous is called the Cat Miraculous, thank you for pointing this out;

- In Marinette's article, the word "superhero" was linked back in the lead after I had removed the links (including this one), so for now I have linked it once again in the infobox, caption, and body of the article; I have also linked the word in Adrien's article in order to maintain a sense of continuity between the two articles; I know that the word "superhero" is widely known by the readers, but maybe it should be kept linked in both articles since it is important to their subjects. Flowerpiep (talk) 18:19, 21 January 2019 (UTC)Flowerpiep

This is your article, Flowerpiep, and if you'd like it to be linked for consistency and clarity's sake I don't see a problem with it. You can justify it here and to other editors so I personally believe it to be fine. All other changes look great, congrats on the two GAs! DanielleTH ^{(Say hi!)} 22:39, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

@DanielleTH: Thank you! Flowerpiep (talk) 10:30, 22 January 2019 (UTC)Flowerpiep

Nationality

I've had to revert multiple IP editors adding the unsourced assertion of Adrien being French-British. If any of these editors can provide a reliable source of this claim, then I am more than willing to insert it into the entry. The Miraculous Ladybug Wiki is not a reliable source since it is user generated. As far as I'm concerned, searches into his nationality provided no reliable sources and no indication of an alternative nationality. KangarooGymnast (talk) 14:45, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request

Remove "Sentimonster" from his species, and add {{Disputed inline}}. Wikipedia's policy during an edit war is to revert to the status quo version while the change gets discussed on the talk page. These changes are in line with the policy WP:STATUSQUO. 2A02:C7C:2DCE:1F00:88E1:269E:1337:46E1 (talk) 22:11, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

 Done FifthFive (talk) 03:49, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Sentimonster

Are there any reliable sources to back up the claim that Adrien is a sentimonster? I looked around and can only find fan theories. FifthFive (talk) 03:49, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Adrien being a sentimonster is not canon. There has been no confirmation from neither Astruc nor anyone else who works at the show. It's a common fan theory, but nothing more than that. I tried to explain as such to the IP editor, but was reverted repeatedly without an edit summary. Their explanation of it being revealed in the Representation episode is purely original research, as it still hasn't been confirmed. 2A02:C7C:2DCE:1F00:946C:6CDC:3F88:97B8 (talk) 07:47, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, it was a fan theory before, but it has been officially confirmed in the 25th episode of Season 5 ('Representation'), as I mentioned earlier in the edit summary, that Adrien was created by his mother, Emilie Agreste, with the help of the Peacock Miraculous. In 'Representation,' Felix and Kagami performed a play revealing that both Adrien and Felix are sentimonsters. It was shown that neither Emilie nor Amelie (the mothers of Adrien and Felix, respectively) could get pregnant. Eventually, Emilie became pregnant, and the Peacock feather was used in the background when Emilie was pregnant, indicating that she became pregnant with the help of the Peacock Miraculous. Later, Emilie asked Gabriel to help Amelie get pregnant the same way. Since this has been officially confirmed in the show, I don't believe any additional sources are required. 103.178.60.175 (talk) 09:27, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Here's a reliable source I found. 103.178.60.175 (talk) 15:13, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Huh. I stand corrected. Suppose that's my fault for not keeping up with the show, ha. Feel free to make an edit request to put it back in then. 2A02:C7C:2DCE:1F00:8960:8931:D32D:625 (talk) 18:20, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

I would like to step in for this. The transcript from the show states that Emilie miraculously got pregnant, while Gabriel handed the Peacock Miraculous to Colt so he could get Amelie pregnant. While the scene does hint that Emilie used the Peacock Miraculous, it doesn't explicitly state this. Gabriel even says "After much study, I found a solution," which hints that it may have not been the Peacock. This comes after Emilie asked Gabriel to help Amelie, but not specifically by giving them the Peacock, she means as in general help.

As for the source, its writers try to go off of the show. While it is reliable, I double checked the episode Representation to be sure that the theory of Adrien being a sentimonster was not explicitly stated, and it wasn't. Here is the section of the scene right here, starting from the seasons passing:

Félix: Time was passing. And neither of the two sisters managed to have a child.

(Kagami as Emilie and Félix as Gabriel walk towards the cardboard drawings of the King and Queen, Mr. and Mrs. Graham de Vanily, and kneel before them.)

Félix: Eventually, with deep sorrow, the curious princess resigned herself to returning to court in order to benefit, like her sister, from the best remedies.

(The projector flashes the four seasons on the background, with Emilie and Amelie on their knees and their arms around their bellies once more.)

Félix: But even the best remedies couldn't seem to overcome their curse.

(Marinette squints her eyes, immersing herself more in the story.)

Félix: Until one day, the curious princess learned that she was expecting —

(Both depict Emilie pregnant and Gabriel, with peacock feathers spreading on the background.)

Félix: She was pregnant.

(Marinette's eyes widen upon realization.)

Félix: The lord of war burst out in anger. It was his wife, the good princess, who deserved to have a child, not her curious and futile sister who had abandoned her kingdom for that inferior tailor.

(Kagami, as Colt, storms towards Félix, as Gabriel, who is seen acting out creating his fashion designs.)

Kagami: (as Colt) That's unfair! Why should you be the one who gets to have a child?

Félix: (as Gabriel) Maybe it's a miracle.

Kagami: (as Colt) You don't deserve this.

From that section, I have underlined your main hint: the peacock feathers in the background of Emelie's pregnancy could signify that she used the Peacock Miraculous, but the Miraculous itself was nowhere to be seen nor was it mentioned. And from that line to the scene where Gabriel gives the Peacock Miraculous to Colt (the first time it gets mentioned in the play), nowhere does it explicitly state or show that Emilie used it for Adrien's birth. Just because a source could say something about a show doesn't exactly mean that its true in the show itself, unless its given from a staff member of the show (ex. if Jeremy Zag or Thomas Astruc confirmed that Adrien is a sentimonster, then this would be true). DualSkream (talk) 13:57, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

As you mentioned, the peacock feather shown in the background while Emilie was pregnant serves as confirmation that Adrien is a sentimonster. There have been many scenes that hint at this. For example, Gabriel rubbing his ring and Adrien obeying him, as well as an episode where Adrien and Marinette were about to kiss, and Gabriel said 'No' in Adrien's mind. Not everything needs to be said verbally. 103.158.120.226 (talk) 06:48, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Confirmation MUST be verbal in a show for a theory to be true. With what I've presented, it would look like the theory is actually false. I'll bring up another theory in this case: the Lila-Manon theory. It's a popular one in the Miraculous fandom where many believe that Lila is a future reincarnation of Manon, but despite the evidence, nothing has been said about it in the show. You are also yet to respond to the issue about sourcing this theory before adding it. DualSkream (talk) 15:46, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

According to whom does Confirmation MUST be verbal? Does Wikipedia have a rule regarding this? The Lila-Manon theory is non-canon, unlike the Adrien-being-a-Sentimonster theory, which has been confirmed in the series 103.158.120.160 (talk) 15:46, 12 November 2024 (UTC)