Talk:Adam Kisiel

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Adam Kysil wasn't a Pole.--Бучач-Львів (talk) 10:42, 15 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

What matters is how his name is rendered in English language sources. if you want to move it to "Kysil" please use WP:RM rather than making controversial moves unilaterally. Volunteer Marek 15:46, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Adam Kisiel was a Polish senator, he was born and spend whole his life in the Kingdom of Poland, he even sign himself as Adam Kisiel. The form "Kisiel" is also using by scholars in English. The form "Kysil" is used in English only by some Ukrainian historians. This secondary form is mentioned in the beginning of the article, so please stop POV fighting. Kmicic (talk) 09:25, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Adam Kisiel was a Polish senator, because Rus was occupied by Polish kingdom. He was Ruthenian.--Бучач-Львів (talk) 10:12, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Please stop vandalized this article! It is not important what you think about history of nowadays Ukraine. Kmicic (talk) 10:28, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Please stop vandalized this article! you want to keep Polish name Kisiel--Бучач-Львів (talk) 10:36, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You removed many sourced information from this article. Please stop. Kmicic (talk) 10:43, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I don't renamed Jarosław to Yaroslav, though it Grand Prince Yaroslav the Wise founded the town. For Poland it now. Pozdrawiam!--Бучач-Львів (talk) 10:49, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I also don't renamed Ivano-Frankivsk to Stanisławów, though Stanisław Rewera Potocki founded the town, so... I can not see any connection. Kmicic (talk) 10:56, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Where is even Polish ethnic lands? Is there Ivano-Frankivsk? Let it be Warsaw and Lviv, Adam Kysil.--Бучач-Львів (talk) 10:58, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not hidden your earlier sentences like this [1]. I will not talk in this way. Kmicic (talk) 11:02, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You don't want to hear nothing. Ivano-Frankivsk is in Ukraine. Warsaw, Jarosław in Poland. --Бучач-Львів (talk) 11:10, 18 September 2015 (UTC) Please do not twist it in his own way. The Cambridge History of Poland planned in the autumn of 1936, publish. 1950 - old source. Frank Sysyn is modern American and Canadian historian. Please read.[reply]

Again, you removed sourced information about Adam Kisiel and put your POV into article. Please stop. Kmicic (talk) 11:36, 18 September 2015 (UTC) PS Please do not manipulate talk page by adding new words into your sentences [2] Kmicic (talk) 11:41, 18 September 2015 (UTC) Again [3]. Kmicic (talk) 11:50, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Бучач-Львів, if you want to argue the case for changing the name please start a request for move. You should also read WP:COMMONNAME to figure out how Wikipedia's naming guidelines work. What Adam considered himself - whether "Polish", "Ruthenian" or "Polish-Ruthenian" - is actually not relevant, what matters is what modern sources call him. Volunteer Marek 12:11, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Volunteer Marek! Please, read Frank Sysyn. Between Poland and the Ukraine: The Dilemma of Adam Kysil, 1600-1653 Especially, p. XV (difference between Ukr. and Pol.) Pozdrawiam!--Бучач-Львів (talk) 12:39, 18 September 2015 (UTC) Kmicic throws Kysil, Adam in Internet Encyclopedia of Ukraine.--Бучач-Львів (talk) 12:40, 18 September 2015 (UTC) Adam considered himself "Ruthenian",^[1] and is actually relevant. Zaporozhian Cossacks called him Pole because he was king serve. This write all Ukrainian researchers. Pan czyta po-ukrainsku? I read Polish.--Бучач-Львів (talk) 12:50, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Czytam, ale z trudnoscia. But the proper thing to do here is to start a "request for move", (WP:RM) and then everyone can make their case and we can examine how English language sources refer to him. You have the Sysyn book but there's also other works, like the Cambridge History of Poland which use "Kisiel". Having a thorough discussion would be more productive than move warring back and forth. For myself, I think it should be "Kisiel" right now but I'm willing to be convinced. Volunteer Marek 13:06, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Volunteer Marek! Cambridge History of Poland is old source. I suppose it also wrote Poles. You hear better in English-speaking countries. In 1950 Ukraine was occupied by Moskow.--Бучач-Львів (talk) 13:09, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Kmicic, Volunteer Marek! I'm sorry that it happened. But I says true.--Бучач-Львів (talk) 13:27, 18 September 2015 (UTC) Please, see Between Poland and the Ukraine: The Dilemma of Adam Kysil, 1600-1653, P. 48. I did not write Ivan Zamoys'kyi, Mykola Vasyl' Potots'kyi (Mikołaj Bazyli Potocki) (this would be like Ukrainian pronunciation) or Sadok Baronch (see Sadok Barącz). Thank you for your understanding of the situation![reply]

Btw Kisiel described himself as a Polish noble. Kmicic (talk) 13:56, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

He wasn't a Pole.--Бучач-Львів (talk) 18:34, 19 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Новицький Іван. Адам Кисіль, воєвода київський // В. Щербак (упорядник, автор передмови). Коли земля стогнала. — К.: Наукова думка, 1995. — 432 с. — С. 319. ISBN 5-319-01072-9 (in Russian);

Google search

[4] not only Adam Kysil. About other modern persons.--Бучач-Львів (talk) 14:43, 24 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not clear on what this is supposed to show. Volunteer Marek 14:55, 24 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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[1] Новицький Іван. Адам Кисіль, воєвода київський // В. Щербак (упорядник, автор передмови). Коли земля стогнала. — К.: Наукова думка, 1995. — 432 с. — С. 319. ISBN 5-319-01072-9 (in Russian);

[1]