Talk:Adam František Kollár

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Ruthenes

A good start. Trash the pic if you don't want it. I'd probably add the place of publication after every title or delete it everywhere to make his bibliography systematic. I'd also check any existing policy on the translation of the Latin Ruthenes. It has been a sensitive issue. See, e.g., Rusyns for an instance of actual wki usage, which is probably applicable to Kollar's title. Carca220nne (talk) 05:53, 26 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Birth, death

Sources? Birth − Malý slovenský biografický slovník: 15 April. Death − Malý slovenský biografický slovník: 13 June; Ecker, "Adam František Kollár..." Literárnomúzejný letopis: 10 July; Bartůšek, "Nad dílem rakouského osvícenského..." 16. ročník odborné konference...: 13 July; Wikipédia, A szabad lexikon (probably from the Terchová website): 15 July. There may be more. Carca220nne (talk) 07:13, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

FYI, I used reference + The Encyclopaedia of Slovakia and the Slovaks, 2006 and both use 17 April and 10 July for birth and death (and some others do use them as well), respectively, though I've seen some claiming 15 April or 13 July as these dates. The question is, how these sources are reliable? Wikipedia usually doesn't count... MarkBA ^t/c/@ 14:58, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree about wk's unreliability (the entry on mountain x was telling − swiped off two "usually reliable" websites; parts are still iffy, but those who are to consider it may not have a clue which ones). Websites are mostly of little value as multiple independent sources. E.g., osobnosti.sk referenced in this entry may have taken it from the same source that The E. of Slovakia... did, so it would still be only one source. More printed encyclopedias, other printed sources, preferably ones with AFKollár as the main topic, need to be checked, then we need an educated decision about the dates to enter as the main ones, and a mention that reliable sources don't agree and some of the alternative dates need to be included. Papers, one about AFKollár, by two scholars (Ecker and Bartůšek) delivered in academic settings (an academic journal, conference) are certainly reliable sources although they may be wrong. I'd footnote The E. of Slovakia... in the entry, not merely here as an FYI − that's certainly a reliable source, although it may be wrong, too.

Some of the confusion probably boils down to different practices in the past and careless quoting. The dates of a person's baptism and burial were entered in the parish records, but there was no institutionalized record keeping of birth and death dates. Researchers often estimate those dates (a few days before the Church-recorded dates) and then others don't pay attention to what exactly the primary authors say and copy either the estimated birth date or the recorded date of baptism as the DOB (the same for deaths). I wonder whether June in Malý slovenský biografický slovník might be a typo. Carca220nne (talk) 17:34, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

So, as we don't have a biography dedicated to Kollár or we haven't found yet more reliable sources, I think dates as they are now should be left. Just to be clear, the E. of Slovakia was published by the Encyclopaedic Institute of the Slovak Academy of Sciences, so it should be reliable. MarkBA ^t/c/@ 18:15, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I, too, wish writing an encyclopedic entry were that simple, although it can be if the goal is, instead, a poor substitute for an internet user's own ggl search. Just to be clear, Msbs was published by Slovakia's premier biographic and genealogical center, so it should be reliable. So there we are. Whenever there's such a major conflict between respectable sources, more checking is in order – the dates from The E. of Slovakia may turn out to be the likeliest ones (Msbs may have made an error, which was subsequently corrected), but that cannot be treated as a given, it needs to be checked and rechecked because of the conflict. And we do have at least three academic biographies, Michal Eliáš, Adam František Kollár; Ján Tibenský, Slovenský Sokrates, Adam František Kollár; and Andor Csizmadia, Adam Franz Kollár und die ungarische rechtshistorische Forschung, plus a host of research papers, plus other encyclopedias/bio sources to check, but we'd need to lift ourselves from the computer chairs. Carca220nne (talk) 06:25, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]