Talk:Acoustic resonance/Archive 1

Archive 1

Early talk

I'm having trouble figuring out where the 4/10*d comes from in the wavelength correction formula. I understand that it would make a difference what the diameter is, but would appreciate if anyone could post a good explanation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.233.32.18 (talk) 21:54, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't understand how the clarinet is closed at one end, but the saxophone and oboe aren't. A saxophone is almost the same as a clarinet in the way it is played. Any insight, anyone?--Nathan (Talk) 17:18, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

First of all, of course none of these instruments is truly closed at the end. Air has to enter, after all. But the mouthpiece is not a large opening, and it doesn't connect to the air at atmospheric pressure in the room. As a result a clarinet's acoustical behavior is a good approximation to that of an ideal closed cylindrical pipe, and -- as it says in the article -- the acoustical behavior of saxophones and oboes are good approximations to that of an ideal closed conical pipe. To be nitpicky, a conical pipe can't be open, because a cone comes to a point. But a pipe shaped like a frustum of a cone can be open or closed. In either case, provided the truncated part of the cone is short, the acoustic behavior is nearly the same as that of a complete cone, though an open frustum behaves like a cone of the same length while a closed frustum behaves like a cone with a greater length. So in fact all three instruments behave like closed pipes: cylindrical for the clarinet, (frustum of) cone for oboe and sax. And cone, too, for bassoon. Of the common orchestral woodwinds only the flute approximates an open pipe. -- Rsholmes 01:00, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

In the equation f=nv/2L, what is the length of the string expressed in? Also, the "n"=1,2,3.. What does that mean? 71.80.171.94 22:56, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't matter what units the length is expressed in as long as all the units are consistent. For example, if the speed v is about 600 meters/second (for purposes of illustration, don't actually use that value for real calculations) and L is 1 meter, then for n = 1, f = (1 * 600 m/s) / (2 * 1 m) = 300 (1/s) or 300 hz. Likewise if v is in feet per second and L is in feet, the formula still works.

An ideal string has an infinite number of resonant frequencies corresponding to an infinite number of modes in which it can vibrate. "n=1,2,3..." means n can take any positive integer value. So using the above (fictitious) numbers again, the resonant frequencies of a 1 meter string where v is 600 m/s are 300 hz (n=1), 600 hz (n=2), 900 hz (n=3), 1200 hz (n-4), and so on. -- Rsholmes 23:45, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I can't understand the following sentence, and - as it stands - it seems to have grammatical errors :

For mammals the membrane by having different resonance on either end so that high frequencies are concentrated on one end and low frequencies on the other.

Dslc (talk) 08:54, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

I have noticed that the cones section does not have a proper reference. Does anyone have a good online citation/book to link the formula and its derivation to? fuzzywallaby (talk) 01:54, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Closed Tube

f=nv/4L for a closed tube. Is this based on experimental data or is there a way to prove it? Gagueci (talk) 23:54, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Rectangular Box

It is unclear what the italic l, m and n represent in the equation, apart from them being described as non-negative integers.

Can someone please clarify? Jbwright (talk) 00:16, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

I read an excerpt from Physics of Waves by William Cronk Elmore and Mark A. Heald. This is how I interpret it: l,m and n are the modes (harmonics where the fundamental =1) of waves traveling perpendicular to the dimensions of the box x,y and z. If a wave's direction of motion and a wall are parallel they do not effect each other. If all three modes are 0 than no standing wave exists. Non whole number harmonics (Inharmonicity) tend to cancel out allowing only integers to persist.65.80.178.227 (talk) 08:17, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Images

Usually resonance in a tube is drawn with nodes at closed ends and anti-nodes at open ends. The images here are opposite to this, is this intended? 82.32.13.127 (talk) 17:32, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

The pictures are wrong; not only at the open/closed_end side, as observed above, but also at the loudspeaker's ends, where we should find anti-nodes! The pictures show correctly that in closed tubes only odd harmonics are present (while in open tubes all are permitted) since the two errors (on the two sides of the tube) compensate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.31.197.159 (talk) 08:15, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

As of today, the images look correct to me. One possible source of confusion: velocity nodes are pressure anti-nodes. If pressure is plotted, then there should be anti-nodes at the closed ends. In other words, at a closed end, you get maximum pressure oscillation, but no air movement. Spiel496 (talk) 17:38, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Images

I agree with the comment on the images. I too, believe that they are backwards in their presentation, plus a driver (speaker) at one end changes the depiction also. A closed end is a displacement node wherein there can be no movement of the particles. It is the equivalent of a fixed end in a vibrating string. An open end acts as an anti-node for a standing wave. This is a displacement anti-node, with the reflection being equal and opposite. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blb350 (talk • contribs) 01:02, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Resonance within mooth as a play technique

I have removed the section of this name since it didn't make any sense. The original text follows:

A musician, forming cavity resonator within mooth, may amplify and emphasize some overtones from base tone of his/her voice or instrument. This is used for overtone singing and playing on jew's harp.

Pdefer 15:16, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

If you re-spell "mooth" as "mouth" the meaning becomes clear. "A musician, by using his/her mouth cavity as a resonator, may amplify and emphasize some of the overtones of the fundamental tone provided by his/her voice or instrument. This technique is used for overtone singing and playing on the jew's harp." Whether it is appropriate to re-insert the section I leave to others to judge. Brumel (talk) 12:14, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Merge proposal

It appears that there is consensus to merge this old, stale merger proposal. And some of the content in the other articles can certainly be used to improve this one, so the merger was completed. WTF? (talk) 20:42, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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I believe this page (transferred from closed tube) should be merged with Panflute and added to the catagory of "Acoustics". Thomas Hastay (talk) 17:55, 19 February 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thomas Hastay (talk • contribs) 17:52, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Open tube and Closed tube --> Acoustic resonance

There is an old proposal to merge Open tube with this page. I've also added a merge suggestion for Closed tube. I agree both should be merged. any other thoughts? --KarlB (talk) 03:23, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Would also redirect this one, not seeing much that needs merging AIRcorn (talk) 06:53, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Picture looks wrong for closed tube

The text says the closed end remains a node and the open end has the highest vibration, yet the picture shows a graph displaying just the opposite. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lwiniarski (talk • contribs) 03:48, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

This is correct; the figure is wrong. The figure for an open tube also has its nodes and anti-nodes swapped. Anyone who can fix this? I'll try to contact whomever provided the current figures. In the interim, should we add a note to the figure captions? — Fcy (talk) 05:22, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Units for length

The text defines L = length, but does not say in what unit. Meters? User:Derek — Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.74.1.208 (talk) 17:13, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Cylindrical sound resonance

In the equation f=nv/4(L+0.4d) it says that n represents the resonance node as an odd integer (1,3,5...) but how do you know what integer to substitute in for n when solving this equation? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mwmclarinet (talk • contribs) 17 November 2011‎

Haven't looked in detail, but in general, such equations have a set of solutions - with a different solution corresponding to each n. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:CD22:4E0:DAA2:5EFF:FE90:CB17 (talk) 19:24, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

Pressure/displacement nodes

It is a little confusing that the article text talks about displacement nodes, but the graphics show pressure nodes. A pressure node is a displacement antinode. More info and diagrams at http://www.acs.psu.edu/drussell/Demos/StandingWaves/StandingWaves.html. I think the article should make this clear somewhere. Burninthruthesky (talk) 16:18, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

I have added a little clarifying text. Burninthruthesky (talk) 13:11, 19 February 2016 (UTC)