Talk:Abu Ibrahim al-Hashimi al-Qurashi

Abdullah Qardash

Hi Koopinator. I reverted your edit because I can't find any reliable reporting which confirms al-Mawla (AKA Hajji ‘Abdallah) and Abdullah Qardash are one and the same person. An article from Newsweek (which turned out to be incorrect) and a few tabloids like the Sun have made that connection, but I can't find anything from more reliable sources in this area. This report from Remy Mahzam, of the International Centre for Political Violence & Terrorism Research, clearly describes Qardash and Al Mawla as 2 different people.

I can't say with 100% certainty, but the information about Qardash doesn't seem to match what is being said about al-Mawla. I think this confusion stems from the fake statement in August which claimed Qardash had been named as al-Baghdadi's successor. Do you have any other information to support that al-Mawla and Qardash are the same person? If not, maybe a new page should be created for Al Mawla, as we do have official information about him (from the U.S. government's Rewards for Justice). Thanks. Johndavies837 (talk) 23:28, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

@Johndavies837: i got the about Qardash being Quraysh from these articles: https://the-japan-news.com/news/article/0006127757?fp=b90702a7088df6ce04b0b00a531ebbe8 (which referred to him as possibly being Hajji 'Abdullah and i was almost certain this meant Qardash because of the similarities in the name, and also https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/4901826/isis-names-new-leader-as-the-professor-abdullah-qardash-in-message-confirming-baghdadis-death/ makes the connection more directly.) I didn't say he was Rahman al-Mawla, User:Tajotep added that in the next edit after mine. If those sources are unreliable then that's ok. Koopinator (talk) 08:30, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

Transliteration

Hi Koopinator,

Why did you spell his name al-Qurayshi rather than al-Qurashi? After all, the Arabic reads أبو إبراهيم الهاشمي القرشي‎. Eldad (talk) 19:45, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

@Eldad: al-Qurayshi was the first spelling i came across, from this news article. I don't speak Arabic. From a Google news search, al-Qurayshi, al-Quraishi and al-Qurashi are all common transliterations used in sources. Maybe you could try your luck with a requested move, but i believe that if we use al-Qurashi we should also note the alternative transliterations. Koopinator (talk) 19:56, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Well, as far as I can tell, all the major sources that mentioned his name (including ISIS itself, of course) spelled it al-Qurashi. I wonder how come I'm the first to mention it regarding the entry. I guess there are enough Arabic readers in Wikipedia, and they all could note that. Of course, all the other variants of the name can be mentioned in the entry, but I believe that "al-Qurashi" should be the name of the entry and all the other variants can be mentioned inside. Eldad (talk) 20:23, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Merger proposal

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was a consensus not to merge, which includes the initial proposer, following the emergence of new evidence that these are separate people. (non-admin closure) Koopinator (talk) 17:40, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
Same person.--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 18:05, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

Regarding merger of Abdullah Qardash to Abu Ibrahim al-Hashimi al-Qurashi, there is huge overlapping between the two. But are they the same? I'm not sure! Abdullah Qardash is reportedly a Turkmen, but Abu Ibrahim al-Hashimi al-Qurashi is a descendant of Quraysh and ethnically Arab for sure. Based on that, they cannot be the same. Qardash is reportedly dead since 3 years, so probably not the same individual as Al Qurayshi Another discrepancy. Qardash is quoted as Hajji Abdullah al-Afari as real name whereas Qurayshi is quoted as Amir Mohammed Abdul Rahman al-Mawli al-Salbi . It seems totally two different people. werldwayd (talk) 19:19, 30 January 2020 (UTC) werldwayd (talk) 01:23, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Qurayshi is reported to be Turkmen. The Arab name is just for propaganda purposes. Zekelayla (talk) 01:26, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

A regional expert actually explained that the media wrongfully confused and conflated the two, though I have to search for the source. Applodion (talk) 17:53, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

I oppose, they're not confirmed to be the same person. Hisham al-Hashimi, an independent researcher who also advises the Iraqi government on counter-terrorism, stated his own relatives have said he's dead. [1].

Guardian has said some officials believe Qardash and him are the same, but some officials don't. [2]. Until there is solid confirmation by someone, let's avoid it and simply say some suspect them to be the same person while others don't. Right now, there is little proof for them being the same person. 117.199.88.7 (talk) 03:18, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

The user Abductive created a page in October 2019 titled "Amir Muhammad Sa'id Abdal-Rahman al-Mawla" and redirected it initially to Abdullah Qardash, then another user redirected the page to Abu Ibrahim al-Hashimi al-Qurashi based on the Guardian reference. In Abdullah Qardash's article, "A statement in August 2019 attributed to ISIL's propaganda arm, the Amaq News Agency, said that Qardash had been named al-Baghdadi's successor." only Hisham al-Hashimi claimed that he died in 2017, according to his daughter who might have lied to prevent the Iraqi intelligence from finding her father by claiming that he was already dead. Werldwayd you said that ["Abu Ibrahim al-Hashimi al-Qurashi" is a descendant of Quraysh and ethnically Arab for sure. Based on that, they cannot be the same], in the article, it is written: "He was born into an Iraqi Turkmen family", you should have read the article first before writing your conclusion. 175.210.22.151 (talk) 23:03, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

I created that article expecting to be wrong. You guys do what you need to do. Abductive (reasoning) 23:08, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

I admit there are certain parallels between the two persons, but the lesser one in importance, meaning Abdullah Qardash, is constantly portrayed as being dead or killed since 2017. See this I am not an expert of these things, but if one is alive the other dead, they cannot be the same person, can they? But I am ok to merge our Abdullah Qardash into the Abu Ibrahim al-Hashimi al-Qurashi. A subsection can be created in the one unified article, such that this new section addresses the doubts about the real identity of the actual leader of ISIS, meaning Abu Ibrahim al-Hashimi al-Qurashi and that there is some mystery whether he may be or may not be Abdullah Qardash and readers are warned about this ambiguity in identity. By the way, if this matter and discussion is going on for this long (since January 2020), it just means we need a specialist more verse in such matters related to ISIS apparatus and is willing to give more of his or her time and effort in investigating this in depth. Me, I am not that person that has the knowledge or the insight for such level of investigation about this al Qurashi vs Qardash affair. werldwayd (talk) 03:13, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Werldwayd, Trump referred to Abul-Hasan al-Muhajir who was killed one day after al-Baghdadi but Al Jazeera reporter seems to be confused about it, however, I agree with the sentiment that the daughter lied regarding her father, which is the source of what stated by Hisham al-Hashimi. 14.47.25.31 (talk) 09:45, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

The researcher in the Islamic groups, Hassan Abu Haniyeh, expected here that the new caliph, "Abu Ibrahim al-Hashemi al-Qurashi," who was declared leader of the organization, would be Abdullah Qardash. In another source, Hisham al-Hashimi claimed here that Amaq announcement regarding Qardash being the successor was fake because he is not an Arab and already deceased ! It seems that only al-Hashimi believes that he is already dead! 14.47.25.31 (talk) 10:09, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

New information

Very important update. Now Abdul-Nasser Qardash (who is Abdullah Qardash in our article) has been arrested. There were three candidates according to his confessions: himself (meaning Qardash), Omar al-Furkan and Ayoub Rakawi. But later IS (ISIS) chose Abdul-Rahman al-Mawla (meaning the individual in our article Abu Ibrahim al-Hashimi al-Qurashi. This latter who is the actual new ISIS leader has not been apprehended yet. So as per these developments, it is obvious that Qardash was a previous candidate for the leadership of ISIS alongside Omar al-Furkan and Ayoub Rakawi, but not the actual new leader. So Qardash and al-Qurashi are different persons and articles should not be merged. Apparently both use Hajji Abdallah as part of the name, thus the conclusion. Qardash is Hajji Abdallah Abdel Nasser Qardash, whereas Abdulrahman al Mawla is actually Hajji Abdallah, ‘Abdul Amir Muhammad Sa’id Salbi, who also goes by the name Abu-‘Umar al-Turkmani and apparently al-Hashimi al-Qurashi. Such persons have very long names and nom de guerre, so we shouldn't be surprised by the multitude of names and confusion. Here is a source dated today which please study. I promise to provide other sources as well. https://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-islamic-state-terrorist-leader-custody-iraq/7Gj5cam8HSVCJiCNyinULM/ werldwayd (talk) 08:36, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Here more reports Qardash and al-Qurayshi are different people. Now Qardash is arrested. Al-Qurayshi's whereabouts are not clear, but he is not Qardash. Weeven have an official picture of Qardash and he is clearly not the individual Al-Qurayshi. Here the Arab News article https://www.arabnews.com/node/1677661/middle-east with the picture of Qardash. Tass news agancy gives various names for Qardash although doesn't discuss Al-Qurayshi https://tass.com/world/1158647 Here's also the Al Jazeera report that also definitly considers them two different persons and that Qardash (Qirdash) is the one captured by the Iraqis. Al Jazeera calls him number 2 after Al-Qurayshi https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/05/iraq-announces-arrest-isil-number-nasser-al-qirdash-200521071213828.html There are pictures of captured Qardash here werldwayd (talk) 08:49, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

@Zekelayla: @Hodgdon's secret garden: @Applodion: Given the new information above stating that al-Hashimi and Qardash are two seperate people, would you oppose a merge now? Hopefully we can now reach a consensus to not merge. Koopinator (talk) 09:17, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose the merger: Yes, the new information appears to be quite convincing and finally allows us to shed some new light on this very confusing situation. Applodion (talk) 10:10, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
• Yes per the above I agree & also now oppose merging. thanks!--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 16:00, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
• As per above, oppose merger and close discussion keeping both pages werldwayd (talk) 17:03, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Picture https://twitter.com/News_Executive/status/1263196287224201216 is a new pic. About +- 15 years since the last one. But I'm 99% its not copyright free. Idan (talk) 20:02, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Almost all outlets now use various photos of Qardash after his arrest. Are any of the emerging photos public domain and could be used in infobox of Abdul Nasser Qardash? werldwayd (talk) 17:07, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

More info

Here: https://english.alarabiya.net/en/features/2020/09/24/How-ISIS-leader-al-Mawla-rose-rapidly-through-the-ranks-in-Iraqi-terrorist-group Koopinator (talk) 14:36, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

It shouldn't be written as fact that he blew himself up. The US have claimed this, but not provided any evidence, and when reporters asked for it Ned Price gave a very terse and hostile response, indicating they don't have any. Yes, it's possible he did, but we shouldn't take the US government at its word just because it's where most people are from. If it were another country claiming it, we'd say "the US claims that...", and so the same should apply to the US until further evidence is released. Reminder: government intelligence =/= a neutral source, and when there is a political impetus to make a claim (such as this one) we should take it with caution and not assert it as fact.

I hope someone makes the edit imminently to rectify this error. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.205.21.39 (talk) 11:12, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Absolute rubbish. All sources state what happened and the article reflects the sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.111.34.214 (talk) 18:58, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Name

@Stathmopoda orbiculata: All reliable sources (including academic ones like the CTC Sentinel) say that his birth name was Amir Mohammed Abdul Rahman al-Mawli al-Salbi or a variant of that. Including the report you cite ("ISIS leader Abdullah Qardash came to an end. The Iraqi Turkman, whose real name was Amir Muhammad Saeed Abd al-Rahman Muhammad al-Mawlam [...]" [3]). At best, "Abdullah Qardash" was one of his many pseudonyms. The BBC outright says so: "A notorious militant known as "the Destroyer", Qurayshi - who also went by the noms de guerre Hajji Abdullah, Amir Mohammed Said Abdul Rahman al-Mawla and Abdullah Qardash" - though the "Destroyer" nickname actually belongs to Abdul Nasser Qardash, not al-Qurashi, so the BBC is also mixing up stuff. Feras Kilani also says "According to the cell's records, Qardash's real name is Amir Muhammad Sa’id al-Salbi al-Mawla [...]".
The assumption that "Abdullah Qardash" was his real name dates back to the early period when he and Abdul Nasser Qardash were usually confused for one another. Applodion (talk) 23:36, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

I have added "Abdullah Qardash" as an alternate name to the article. Applodion (talk) 23:52, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Coordinates?

I believe the US raid coordinates are 36.318892° N, 36.681653°E. The DoD photos seem to match Google Earth. Can anybody confirm? Karn (talk) 12:07, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

New biography of Abu Ibrahim by prominent Islamic State supporters

A new brief Biography of Abu Ibrahim al-Hashimi al-Qurashi has emerged and translated by Aymenn j al-tamimi. The link to its english PDF is below:

https://www.scribd.com/document/672695678/Biography-of-Abu-Ibrahim-Al-Hashimi-English-translation-by-journalist-A-J-al-Tamimi-PDF

I request experienced editors to include information from it in article too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sam6897 (talk • contribs) 10:25, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Suicide vs. Suicide Bombing

It appears that the subject of this article committed suicide during an operation to apprehend him for his criminal activities, not during a suicide attack/bombing. It would be inappropriate to conflate his death such an act as it does not meet the Wikipedia definition of a suicide attack/bombing, as he had no military, civilian, political, or infrastructure target. He did not choose to kill himself, using an explosive device, until he was cornered and had no means to further his escape. He did not attempt to attack his pursuers prior to detonating his device, implying his intent was purely to deny the possibility of being apprehended and held accountable for his crimes.

I am starting this discussion as an editor has been repeatedly revising edits to correct the article, and giving no suitable explanation, and been spamming accounts with accusations of "edit war" on their accounts, but has refused to create a discussion on the topic themselves. RubberJackal (talk) 14:37, 15 December 2024 (UTC)