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The Abasgoi are considered the ancestors of modern Abkhazians

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First of all Abkhazian is a wrong term, it should be Abkhaz, Armenians there are also Abkhazian citizens. Abkhaz is the ethnic term.

Secondly, Tsabal and Dal(Apsilia) and Sochi area (Sadz) are not represented among Abasgoi. Most of Tsabalan families are now living in the middle east (See Circassian Genocide, and Georgian Colonisation of Abkhazia), and they form the body of diaspora (I havent met any one from Greater Abkhazia that came from Ochamchira, almost all of us are from either from Sadz region (minority) or Aqua (Tsabalan, majority). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.172.111.240 (talk) 17:45, 21 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Abasgoi and Apsilae

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Apparently the terms shifted over time so sometimes it was Apsilae who lived to the north of Abasgoi (as the Oxford dictionary of late antiquity says: North of Abasgia was Apsilia with the fortress at Tzibile (Tsebelda) in the Kodori Valley, and then by the 6th century Abasgia had shifted to the north, between the rivers Gumista and Bzip). The problem is that the map in the article locates Abasgia to the north of Apsilia, but south of Gumista (near Sukhumi/Dioscurias), and thus not between Gumista and Bzip. Anyone knows of a good source which makes sense of all this? Alaexis¿question? 10:08, 22 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ancient sources

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Pliny the Elder, 1st century CE


Arrian's Voyage Round the Euxine_Sea, 2nd century CE. The list is counter-clock-wise, south-to-north.


Procopius, THE PERSIAN WAR, book II, XXIX


Procopius, Wars, Book IV (beginning), III


Justinian's Novella 28. Again the order is south-to-north.


Modern sources

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War and Warfare in Late Antiquity (2 vols.): Current Perspectives, p. 344


The Oxford Dictionary of Late Antiquity, page 1


Dictionary of Greek and Roman Geography, 1857


Воронов Ю.Н. Тайна Цебельдинской долины


Conclusions

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TBD Alaexis¿question? 12:46, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Apsilia was always located south of Abasgia. There is no contradiction in ancient sources in this regard. The Oxford Dictionary of Late Antiquity makes an apparent error. As for the location of the Abasgoi, the hypothesis of their northward migration comes from the fact that Arrian (2nd century AD) mentions their neighbors, the Sanigae, as being in control of Sebastopolis (Pliny places the Abasgoi between the Apsilae and the Sanigae), while Procopius (6th century AD) finds the Abasgoi further north. In summary, the Apsilae dwelled somewhere between the Ghalidzga and Kodori and the Abasgoi north of them, between the Kodori and Dioscurias/Sebastopolis. Later, by the 6th century, the Abasgoi had moved north, displaced the Sanigae further north and established themselves up to the Bzyb. Around the same time or earlier, the Aspilae expanded to occupy all the territory up to the Gumista (close to the environ of today's New Athos), which formed a border with the Abasgoi.
For the 6th-century situation, the historian Zurab Anchabadze gives the following summary:
  1. the south-western littoral region of modern Abkhazia up to the Ghalidzga was occupied by the Lazi;
  2. to the north and north-east of them (up to Tsebelda) were the Aspilae;
  3. southeastern highlands were occipued by the Misiamiani;
  4. north-west of the Apsilae, up to the Bzyb, were the Abasgoi;
  5. north-west of the Abasgoi, around modern Gagra, were the Sanigae. Анчабадзе З. В., Из истории средневековой Абхазии (VI-XVII вв.), Сух., 1959: 6-16.--KoberTalk 10:15, 25 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! Alaexis¿question? 13:39, 25 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Abasgia - Abasgoi two separate articles

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Abasgia and Abasgoi are two separate articles which talk about the same region. @Alaexis Lemabeta (talk) 10:25, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The former is supposed to be about the polity/region and the latter is about the ethnic group. But there is a lot of overlap, so they could be merged. Alaexis¿question? 11:21, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]