Talk:A Taste of Honey (song)

Seems more like a plug for the Beatles.

I want more about the song and less about the Beatles and the song. It was covered by them, not an original.

Do something about it then.--Patthedog 07:49, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I suggest you extend the information about the songwriters/original performers rather than worrying about how much content is provided for the Beatles version. I reduced the Beatles info somewhat and gathered it together in a section about them. John Cardinal 12:37, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry; this is NOT a "Beatles-related article"; the Beatles covered the song in 1962 and of all the cited covers theirs is the least popular. Much as I love the Beatles, there is no reason they should have more than a factual citation like everybody else, much less dominate the entire page with track listings of Please Please Me, etc. I removed the heading for "The Beatles Version". Also removed "The Movie" and added a disambiguation link at the top; this is appropriate as there's a play, movie, and song by this name, and there's already a brief article about the film.

A citation is needed on the "Howard Bailey" cover of this song; a Google search for "Howard Bailey" and "A Taste of Honey" finds only mirrors of the wiki article; and Amazon does not find an artist called Howard Bailey.Sebum-n-soda 20:25, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

This article is about the song, and the version by The Beatles is as valid as any other. The lack of contents for other versions is no reason to delete notable content for their version. Add information about the other versions. John Cardinal (talk) 03:25, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

To include infoboxes for every recorded version would be impractical and superfluous, though it seems reasonable to include the one by Herb Albert because of its much greater notability, since that's the version that won a Grammy, etc. If anything, we should include a bunch of Tony Bennett info before we include Beatles info. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Petershank (talk • contribs) 15:32, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Clarification on song origin

The article begins by saying the title "may have been inspired by the 1958 English play A Taste of Honey which reached Broadway in 1960." "May have been" is probably overcautious. In fact, Bobby Scott composed the music for the 1960 David Merrick Broadway production, according to a reissue of the album, combined with another Scott album, on Collectables COL CD 6407. This CD includes three instrumental versions of the song, credited solely to Scott. If someone knows how lyrics were added, and whether they were written by Ric Marlow or by Marlow and Scott, it would be interesting.

Also, with all due respect to Patthedog, I'd love to know how this came to the attention of the Beatles. David Fell (talk) 05:25, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

McCartney says that he was introduced to this “slightly left and right of rock and roll” music by his older cousin, Bett Robbins, when she would baby sit him and his brother, probably early to mid ‘50’s. This sort of stuff appealed to McCartney, but definitely not to Lennon. It later came into its own when Epstein was able to “upgrade” their gigs to cabaret. When Acker Bilk had a UK hit with an instrumental version in January,1963, it was decided to include it on the Please Please Me album.--Patthedog (talk) 21:58, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Kitchen Sink Analysis

I propose that we can safely remove analysis of the film, or at least move it to the film's article.

First, the sociologicial analysis comparing Kitchen Sink literature to the Beatles' "outspoken image" seems a bit like original research. It's just a catchy tune, folks. Where's the comparative sociology of the oeuvre or image of Tony Bennett, Trini Lopez, and Barbra Streisand?

Second, Paul McCartney was not introduced to this song in the early 1950s if it was written in 1960.

Third, aren't the Beatles lyrics for this song along the lines of "I kissed her lips, they were sweeter than wine, they were a taste of honey" etc? They may have produced plenty of social commentary, but I'm not sure this is an example. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Petershank (talk • contribs) 16:59, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

I sort of understand your argument, although I personally would have come here first before wielding the butchers knife. I would just say in defence what has been taken out that its “Kitchen Sink” reference might be of passing interest to anyone researching the period. And where did it say when McCartney was introduced to the song? --Patthedog (talk) 18:50, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

In fact, I left alone the section titled "Film" while proposing it should be moved or removed. Analysis of the film in light of Kitchen Sink literature seems wonderful for the film article. But connecting it to the Beatles "image" seemed a stretch for this article, considering they didn't write the song, and their cover recording doesn't seem widely known. However, I'm not well versed in either the Kitchen Sink genre or Beatles, so I should probably defer to others. I did boldly unsheath my knife on the infobox for Please Please Me, which is just not related closely enough to the subject of the article. The link to its own page is sufficient.

Petershank (talk) 00:38, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I thought it was you who said above (on this talk page), "McCartney says that he was introduced to this “slightly left and right of rock and roll” music by his older cousin, Bett Robbins, when she would baby sit him and his brother, probably early to mid ‘50’s.."

Petershank (talk) 00:45, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

You’re right, I did say that. He was introduced to this stuff through his cousin (so he has said) during the mid fifties or so. I think he meant he acquired the taste for the genre then. It must have appealed to him, the whole Broadway thing (“West Side Story” / “The Music Man”) which, allowing for a little leeway, would include this type of song - although composed later. At the time of its release this song, with its “working class” undertones seemed important - British newspapers had a fascination with The Beatles’ backgrounds and accents, you know the sort of thing - how often did they bath, did they wash their hair? That’s why I put in links to “Saturday Night and Sunday Morning” / “Look Back In Anger” etc. although I accept that this could be a departure from the main subject. They didn’t write this song, as you say, but through McCartney The Beatles endorsed it, and so perhaps ought to receive a mention for the interest that it produced at the time. Anyway, I’m more than happy to discuss it. Cheers --Patthedog (talk) 11:19, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

I see that you have commented anonymously here before on this. Actually, I think I’ll revert, but add references. Any thoughts from others on this first? --Patthedog (talk) 20:13, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing out my error of omission. I never intend to edit or comment anonymously. Petershank (talk) 00:45, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Not a problem! --Patthedog (talk) 11:19, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

I have now removed the kitchen sink bit because it didn't really fit without a section devoted to the Beatles version. I have split the article into the instrumental versions (Herp Alberts version being the best known and most notable cover) and vocal versions (The Beatles version being the best known and most notable cover version). btw - this is really beyond doubt. While only the Tony Bennet version charted in the US, I think it is safe to say, had The Beatles released it as a single it would have charted higher! Also it is by far the most well-known and the best selling (as part of Please Please Me as well as Introducing... The Beatles and The Early Beatles in the US) vocal version and to edit it down to a line saying they covered it is hardly representative. As has been said, boost the detail on other versions if they were important, don't take out interesting information about this version! I've put the infobox back for continuity (see all other covers on that album!) but also as the best known vocal version. I understand the original controversy about the Beatles information was because the article must have originally read as if it was only a Beatles song but I hope it is now a balanced article that gives just coverage to the original version, the Tijuana Brass version and the Beatles version. Retro junkie (talk) 20:42, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Beatles infobox

Someone should add one. I don't know enough about the song to do so. Cubzrule (talk) 07:26, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I notice use of 3/4 and 4/4 in the Beatles' version. Unfortunately, I am not familiar with earlier versions to say if this unique for "A Taste of Honey". The Beatles would use 3/4 and 4/4 in the same song in 1966 in "She Said She Said", one of the cuts on "Revolver". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.82 (talk) 17:40, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Followup: I got to the Lenny Welch version on youtube and did find it (including use of 3/4 and 4/4) a lot like the Beatles' version. Wow! (I know Lenny Welch best for "Since I Fell For You", on the pop charts right between JFK assassination and the coming of the Beatles.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.82 (talk) 21:54, 16 February 2012 (UTC)