Talk:2024 Venezuelan presidential election

Hint that the CNE has been ordered to publish 'results'

Mercopress 22 Aug states ... the TSJ also ruled while instructing the CNE to publish the results, which seems to indicate that the TSJ has ordered the CNE to publish "the results". If we had the text of what the TSJ actually published, then we would know what the CNE is supposed to publish; "the results" is vague. Boud (talk) 21:25, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

The TSJ president, who also heads the body’s electoral branch, additionally stressed that the CNE should publish the “definitive results” in the National Gazette before an August 28 deadline. Venezuela’s electoral authority has not published detailed results broken down by voting center, with officials denouncing massive cyberattacks against state infrastructure. [1] If they're sayng she ordered publication of detailed results broken down by voting center, that seems to contradict the idea that they don't exist because of a hack. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:30, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Publication in government gazettes are the final step in laws and other legal statements in many countries, to remove any chance of ambiguity in what's in the law, and Venezuela's is Gaceta Oficial de Venezuela published since 1872 and under the current government, technically, Gaceta Oficial de la República Bolivariana de Venezuela. Presumably Venezuelanalysis means publication in Gaceta Oficial de la República Bolivariana de Venezuela. I'm not a lawyer, but my experience with searching and analysing certain items of government gazettes in a few countries is that I've never seen anything remotely representing a table equivalent to a csv file of 30,000 records in any government gazette. I expect that only a tiny handful of numbers will be presented. The difference with the current situation is that publishing false numbers in a government gazette might give higher criminal liability (under laws for making knowingly false statements) to the CNE than "just" announcing them in a press conference. I guess we'll see ... Boud (talk) 10:31, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Boud another former rector speaking up (I don't have time to get to everything): El Diario de Caracas, 26 August. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:00, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

CNE access window

Boud do you have time to work this in? If not, on my list, unless someone gets to it. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:45, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

 Done [2] SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:53, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Nice finding - I copyedited it. I wouldn't consider it anything beyond a weak sanity check. Under the devil's advocate hypothesis that the opposition faked the actas, they presumably would have done that with access to the full database of the lists of witnesses per mesa, and access to software with the tally sheet format and to hardware for printing similar style sheets and fabricating CNE watermarks and so on - they would have only faked some of the counts. Boud (talk) 00:17, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, Boud! Maybe I can get you to also copyedit 2024 Venezuelan political crisis :) I've been chunking in text too fast to refine it! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:20, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

TSJ-Mandated CNE Document Release

Does anyone have an update on when CNE are going to release the TSJ-mandated election-relation documentation? I feel like whether there was electoral fraud is the seminal issue here, no? But I feel like the article is written presupposing such fraud, e.g., giving credence to the idea that the masterminds of the greatest electoral fraud in Latin American history temporarily turned into idiots and left an look-how-ridiculously-and-clearly-impossible-in-real-life zero-sequencing fingerprint. I don't know; maybe they did?

We need to get actual documentation; otherwise, we don't know (actually know) if there was the greatest elector fraud in Latin American history. Instead, we repeat claims of such fraud even though while demanding the release of documents from CNE. And such a demand (and our insatiable need) for this information proves that we don't have it yet. And to say that the greatest electoral fraud in Latin American history just occurred without this information seems like a self-inflicted rule. No one is forcing us to quickly create this (and kindred) articles.

BTW: I'm only writing this to improve this article. Please don't ad hominem me; I'm indifferent to the results of this election. I'm not pro either side; I am an American who is indifferent to who rules a country that I've never been to, that is far away from me, and that I'm not a citizen of. 73.230.160.102 (talk) 14:37, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

The CNE has already well missed the deadline (more than once) for publishing the data, and it's not likely to happen at this late stage. Re "I don't know; maybe they did?", the article reports what sources say; the reader can draw their own conclusion about your question, but there are plenty of sources saying that is exactly what happened. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:55, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

SandyGeorgia, thank you for responding. 73.230.160.102 (talk) 17:56, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Simple English please!

It might help an average reader get to the salient points of this article a lot faster than the third par of the lede that only then mentions the CNE likely published falsified results. The first two pars of this article's lede fail completely to get to the point that deeply unpopular president Nicolás Maduro was going to be easily defeated at the polls but then miraculously won. If you are going to have such a rambling effort, my advice is use this quote to paraphrase the next 900 lines.

“Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything.” ― Joseph Stalin

146.90.208.196 (talk) 14:34, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Venezuelan_presidential_election 174.89.12.36 (talk) 10:54, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

European Union

I do not know what it is worth but is this [3] here somewhere? ReyHahn (talk) 15:18, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

ReyHahn no it's not anywhere, yet, as far as I know. For two reasons.

1. First, since that recognition is only symbolic (the Spanish gov't has declined to recognize him even though the parliament did), that content really belongs at International reactions to the 2024 Venezuelan presidential election as it is probably undue here.
2. Second, as I was traveling to a wedding and then got sick when I got home, I have fallen behind on updates.

SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:21, 25 September 2024 (UTC)