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Archive 1

Arson attack on the rail network

I don't see a mention in the article on the same-day arson attack on the high-speed rail network which perhaps was intended to disrupt the opening ceremony. Is there a Wikipedia article on the incident? 152.130.15.108 (talk) 20:05, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Here's the article: 2024 France railway arson attack — Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.130.15.108 (talk) 20:10, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Olympic Flag raised upside down!

Don’t know if anyone else noticed but they raised the Olympic Flag upside down! Subman758 (talk) 21:15, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Cauldron a reference to the first hot air balloon ride

According to the website of Paris 2024 the cauldron which is shaped like a hot air balloon is a "nod to the first hydrogen-powered flight of a balloon, which took place in the Tuileries in 1783" http://olympics.com/en/paris-2024/live-updates/828a28d7-f37f-4332-a973-1803bb2e7706 Dwscomet (talk) 22:42, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Subtitle of Proceedings in French

Currently subtitles are used French words like Synchronicité, Liberté and so on. However it is ridiculous to use French words in this English Wikipedia. If it is held in Iran, do we use همزمانی, آزادی? Canadian Olympic Committee uses enchanté, synchronicity, liberty, equality, fraternity, sisterhood, sportsmanship, festivity, darkness, solemnity, solidarity, and eternity.[1]―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 10:12, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ "Paris puts on a show for Olympic Opening Ceremony".>

―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 10:12, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

Which song is that?

Which song (start) played at bridge french flag displayed with smoke torches? Sportomanokin (talk) 19:08, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Removed announcer section

I can't find a single source to support who the announcers are, and I was coming up short from searching both the press releases and Google, so I went ahead and removed it for now. 73.152.17.22 (talk) 18:20, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

I would agree with removing. I can't find any sources that demonstrate it has any notability. Ravendrop 19:49, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

No image available for the article

Why there don't have any image related to the opening ceremony on that day? Is it represent people not willing to support Wikipedia? 142.112.254.113 (talk) 18:44, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

misrepresentation of the source content

the paragraph that talks about the apology issued by the organizers of the bacchanals parody completely misrepresents the actual statement documented in its associated link. it says they confirmed they did intend to cause offense to all religions but that's not what they said at all in the linked article from the guardian. quite the opposite in fact. 50.231.128.30 (talk) 21:01, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

unjustified deletion

A short sentence mentioning that a US company has pulled its ads from the olympics due to the "mockery of the Last Supper" in the opening ceremony, added to the article initially by me [1], has been removed by IP 185.213.212.242 three times, under the false pretenses „not notable,“ „This is not a US article, but an international one. Why do you want to emphasize one specifc controversy in a specifc country?“ and „not notable on a global scale.“[2][3][4]. To me this smells of whitewashing.
Fact is that this partial "boycott" has been reported as of early today not only in the US by NY Times[5], Washington Post[6], and several other media, but also internationally in Denmark[7][8], Germany[9], Switzerland[10], UK[11], Austria[12], Poland[13], Turkey[14][15], India[16],[17] Azerbaijan[18] and Pakistan[19].

IMO, it’s clearly notable and should be re-added. --Túrelio (talk) 10:23, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Maybe it should be generalized as "some US companies" as I never heard of them before to avoid giving free publicity. Trigenibinion (talk) 10:33, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
Rather than having a single-sentenced paragraph, it should be added to one of the existing paragraphs. Vestrian24Bio (TALK) 10:35, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
It should be included somehow, as it's a tangible action in response to the controversy. Given it's a single company it makes sense to name it, but if more advertisers withdraw we should generalise rather than listing them individually. A.D.Hope (talk) 10:59, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
I agree with all of you that this information should be restored. I have taken the liberty and have done so, here. I hope this helps. With regards, AnupamTalk 00:48, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Éternité section - the ending of Céline's "Hymne à l'amour"

"Dion ended her performance with a few notes of La Marseillaise."

Did Céline actually end her performance of "Hymne à l'amour" with a few notes of La Marseillaise? Did I miss that somehow? What I heard after a brief dramatic pause in the performance was the final line of Hymne à l'amour – "Dieu réunit ceux qui s'aiment" Wiredwidget (talk) 19:54, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

I think the confusion is that as per this La Montagne article (in French) "Quelques notes de La Marseillaise à nouveau, en guise de clôture." ( A few notes from La Marseillaise again, as a closing at 23h 29). But I believe this happened AFTER Dion had finished performing "Hymne à l'amour" as per the French wiki version Cérémonie d'ouverture des Jeux olympiques d'été de 2024 Wiredwidget (talk) 14:12, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
A review of Dion's 2024 Olympic Games Opening performance, which is widely available online, confirms she did NOT sing or play a few notes of the French national anthem, La Marseillaise. Hopefully folk will refrain from reinserting that falsity. Wiredwidget (talk) 11:57, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

'Blasphemy is not illegal in France, but one risks other consequences.'

I would like to specifically discuss this phrase, which is currently in the 'Drag queen performance' subsection of the article. Myself and @Trigenibinion disagree on whether it should be included or not, so other input would be welcome. A.D.Hope (talk) 11:05, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

  • My opinion is that the sentence is not relevant to the controversy. There has been no serious suggestion of illegality, so there is no need to clarify that blasphemy is legal in France. The phrase 'one risks other consequences' is vague and has (unintentionally, I'm sure) threatening overtones, and so should also be removed from the article. A.D.Hope (talk) 11:09, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
    One of the performers has been threatened. It is even more relevant now. Trigenibinion (talk) 11:37, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
    If that is the case and the threat seems notable then we should include it clearly in the article, not talk vaguely of 'other consequences'. I assume the threat isn't of criminal action, since that is impossible in France? A.D.Hope (talk) 12:05, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
    One of the references mentions Charlie Hebdo. This might also explain an intentional irreverence. Trigenibinion (talk) 12:10, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
    That reference doesn't have any relevance to the controversy. A.D.Hope (talk) 15:12, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
    It is related to blasphemy issue in France. Trigenibinion (talk) 16:05, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
    Blasphemy in France isn't the topic of the subsection. A.D.Hope (talk) 16:33, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
    The reference directly supports the statement. Trigenibinion (talk) 16:36, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
    The statement 'one risks other consequences' shouldn't be in the article. It's vague and inappropriately worded. A.D.Hope (talk) 16:38, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
    Change the wording if you can think of a better one. Trigenibinion (talk) 16:39, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
    I would remove the entire sentence, but you would not find that acceptable. This is why I've asked for outside input. A.D.Hope (talk) 16:40, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
    The history of blasphemy in France is part of the context. Trigenibinion (talk) 16:43, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
    We've discussed this at length, so I'm not going to do so again. A.D.Hope (talk) 16:46, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
    Hey, I'm struggling to understand your addition: 'This ignores a tradition of détournement in France.' In what way is this related to the presence of a child in the segment? A.D.Hope (talk) 22:15, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
    Somebody inserted the child phrase, it was not there before. Trigenibinion (talk) 22:34, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
    In that case, what did you intend by adding the 'détournement' sentence? Is there evidence that Jolly intended the scene to be a deliberate defacement of The Last Supper for artistic effect? A.D.Hope (talk) 23:07, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
    I agree that this sentence should be removed. To me, it is analogous to stating "Wearing summer dresses is not illegal, but one risks other consequences, such as bullying, rape or death [citing historical incidents and quotes]". I think both sentences are unacceptable and carry an implicit tone of threat and blame. Zear06 (talk) 19:15, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
    I'll add my vote to removing the sentence, generating consensus. Killuminator (talk) 19:56, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
    There is more people that have moved or edited this sentence. Trigenibinion (talk) 20:08, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
    I'm a noob here. I don't know how disagreements like this should be resolved. It's not clear if other edits are necessarily supporting to keep the sentence. List of the updates:
    I appreciate the previous effort to revise, but I still found the whole sentence problematic. (By the way, from the rest of the discussion I know that there is no bad intent from anyone)
    1. The sentence suggested that this performance is blasphemy. The article on Blasphemy has it more neutral: "Some Christians described parts of the 2024 Summer Olympics opening ceremony as blasphemy".
    2. "[is legal] but [may be illegally punished]" sounds threatful.
    3. "retaliated" frames actions against blasphemy as defensive or justified responses, and frames the ceremony as provocative or harmful.
    4. The whole paragraph alternated between topics. (religious? politicians? others?) and countries, making it hard to keep track. With sentences shortened: "Criticised by politicians, Christian groups, representatives of the Muslim. Also described by conservative commentators worldwide as woke. Blasphemy is not illegal in France, but people who consider it wrong have retaliated against supposed offenders in the past. The presence of a child in the scene also drew criticism. A reparation mass is planned."
    Zear06 (talk) 01:44, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
    Yea I do find the sentence problematic. I tried to read the underlying sources to see what they were saying but I don't read French. So need to do some Google translating and ChatGPTing when I have the chance. And I also edited it to clarify what the author was trying to say, just so that we weren't beating around the bush, but actually naming it, and not being coy.
    Ultimately though, a sentence that says "Oh hey X is not illegal in France, but you might get killed" feels pretty messed up for a Wikipedia article. I mean do we have underlying reliable sources saying that? That's really the first question we need to ask ourselves.
    Anyway I'm sure we'll sort this out. Plenty of time! Jjazz76 (talk) 03:09, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
    It does not. It highlights a very real problem of christian extremism being alive and well even in a country as secular as France. That's important information. 46.97.170.182 (talk) 08:42, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
    Is this a vote to revert to "Blasphemy is not illegal in France, but one risks other consequences, including cyber bullying or death"? 2A02:3032:30F:A6F7:88C2:7EA1:ECF6:A200 (talk) 08:57, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
  • I've removed the sentence for now given the responses here. If it's going to be added back into the article I think it would be better to work out the wording here first, to try and find something that's acceptable to all editors. A.D.Hope (talk) 09:15, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
  • Since I've got the ping, I'll say that removing/changing seems only logical because besides being far too extreme to say in wikivoice without appropriate sources, and not really reflecting the sources, it also reads like a shoddy translation. It makes it sound like death is an inherent side effect of being blasphemous. And as noted, the sources don't allude to that nor make any statement that blasphemy is often responded to by "death". There's some examples of people perceived to be blasphemous being sent death threats (or murdered), but even mentioning this as a kind of comparison to what a punishment might be if blasphemy was illegal is unnecessary and feels like some weird victim blaming. We don't really need to say anything beyond blasphemy not being illegal (and we could probably have a whole other discussion on if adding something could be perceived as a POV qualifier to try and make blasphemy seem like it should be illegal), but if we do make mention of "other consequences" then just let it be to say that outside of the law some people who take offense go too far. Kingsif (talk) 23:53, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Festivité performance subsection

I've just made a series of changes to this subsection, and would therefore like to provide a place to comment on the changes. The changes are as follows (one edit not by myself caught in the middle!), and I've also tried to provide descriptive edit summaries. The changes primarily relate to the:

  • organisation of sources, in particular trying to replace general commentary with specific quotes
  • slightly reducing the number of sources so as to avoid WP:OVERKILL
  • the organisation of the section, in particular removing material that is not directly relevant and trying to group information logically.

Note that some specific parts of the subsection are already being discussed above; please try not to duplicate the discussion. A.D.Hope (talk) 09:23, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

I do feel like it's necessary to include some of the material you say is "not directly relevant" - namely, that even during the ceremony people said that's Dionysus. It contextualises the controversy, and the fact that there was pushback against the 'Christian outrage' is part of the controversy itself. Kingsif (talk) 23:58, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
The 'Dionysus' interpretation is mentioned in the first paragraph. That interpretation doesn't seem to have been controversial, however, so there's little else to say except to point out that it exists. A.D.Hope (talk) 11:46, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Some points from a UK podcast

This podcast episode...

Richard Osman; Marina Hyde (31 July 2024). "Triumph or Flop? Paris Olympics Opening Ceremony". The Rest is Entertainment (Podcast). Event occurs at 36m45s.

...made some points of interest:

  1. the presenters' own verdict was: the show was a noble failure; praised for "try[ing] something completely radical and different", spoiled by the rain, "much much much too long", the thinness of the line of spectators along the Seine. "you can tell he [Thomas Jolly] was a theatre director because I didn't think it worked as a TV spectacle".
    Obviously just two UK individuals, but prominent enough to mention if there should be a "critical response" section.
  2. "The French perceive it to have been an absolute triumph" -- more notable than the preceding since it is a meta-comment
  3. for previous Olympic opening ceremonies "you would have a dress rehearsal a couple of days beforehand" -- none here for logistical reasons and to keep all the surprises secret
  4. In the BBC coverage Andrew Cotter was obliged to identify many of the participants (torchbearers etc.) just from his personal knowledge; no notes were provided by the organisers for the broadcasters.

My own comment (WP:SYN without further evidence) is that points #3 and #4 together suggest one factor leading to the misunderstanding of the Festivité section. jnestorius(talk) 10:55, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

A meta comment on your own comment here is that, whether it was Cotter or his co-commentator or somebody, but watching the BBC coverage of the ceremony, I'm pretty sure somebody identified Dionysus. Kingsif (talk) 00:02, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
I can confirm that the BBC commentator identified Philippe Katerine at Dionysus. The relevant BBC commentary can be heard at 3:19:36, for editors able to access the BBC iPlayer. A.D.Hope (talk) 11:59, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

C Spire?

This is a regional telecommunications firm operating exclusively in the american south. A big deal seems to be made out of them pulling their ads from the olimpics, but there's no evidence of them ever running ads on the olympics in the first place. All evidence points to their statement being itself a marketing campaign. 46.97.170.182 (talk) 09:37, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

I read that 9 American companies pulled out, but it might be fake news. Trigenibinion (talk) 12:27, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Mauritania representative

Is Ahmed Ould Sid'Ahmed Ould Djé, Minister of Culture, Youth, Sports and Relations with Parliament of Mauritania —> the same person as Ahmed Ould Sid'Ahmed? 109.38.145.162 (talk) 07:18, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

article summary quality

The summary of this article needs cleaning up/revision. It feels non-objective, slanted and lacking critical details.

It says there were issues but doesn't detail what those were at the beginning. It does not note that the ceremony's length had to do with weather conditions.

The last supper complaint on top of that feels slanted. There is no mention in the summary that the scene was built on Greek celebrations and Christians just assumed it was about the last supper which was influenced by this.

There should also be an explanation as to what a tableau is in this context. 97.70.37.87 (talk) 10:29, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Candace Cameron Bure

Parade magazine sends me emails now that it is not longer a newspaper insert. One of the articles linked in an email said she criticized the opening ceremonies. What is the standard one must meet to be included as someone who criticized the ceremonies?— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 22:11, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

This is a little-known used-to-be child actor of minimal notability. Her opinion lacks notability. Parade’s status as a minor publication is a secondary issue, but it’s reasonable to question their reliability. The article has sufficient examples of complaints. We don’t needs a laundry list of them. Drmargi (talk) 01:05, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
I don't see her as little-known. She still seems pretty visible to me. Remember, her series came back.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 15:20, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
US-centric Trigenibinion (talk) 15:35, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
Okay.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 15:45, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Le Festin des Dieux

The section on the drag queens could usefully link to Le Festin des Dieux (which I have just translated from the French article). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:04, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Many thanks for this context. This was my introduction to Le Festin des Dieux (itself inspired by The Last Supper, hence controversial in its own time). The religious reaction is unsurprising –who didn't think of the da Vinci, whatever your degree of media literacy? (Drive-by comment: "The Last Supper? What is going on here...‽!‽ Where's Judas?"). In this wise, what the rights-holder's hosts on CCTV, ARD, etc. made of it, if they showed it at all, would be pertinent. kencf0618 (talk) 12:47, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
According to some unknown source, NBC would have removed the video (IOC does not provide it for a country unless nobody has the TV rights, so it is not true that IOC deleted it in the US). Trigenibinion (talk) 12:56, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
As far as I can tell, there is no controversy about the segment resembling Le Festin des Dieux, so it does not need to be included in the 'controversies' segment. It could be included in the subsection about the Festivité segment, though. A.D.Hope (talk) 11:10, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
This section clarifies that ignorance might be responsible for the outrage. Trigenibinion (talk) 11:42, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
You have been removing sources that indicates that the performer and IOC pre-controversy reference to the event as The Last Supper might be responsible for the outrage. This should be included. 2601:8C3:8600:C2C0:E841:9585:EF14:45EA (talk) 15:59, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
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