Talk:2023 Johannesburg building fire

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the 2023 Johannesburg building fire article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

This article is written in South African English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, realise, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

A news item involving 2023 Johannesburg building fire was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 1 September 2023.

Wikipedia

While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard.

Crime and Criminal Biography Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Death Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Death on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DeathWikipedia:WikiProject DeathTemplate:WikiProject DeathDeath articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Disaster management Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Disaster management, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Disaster management on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Disaster managementWikipedia:WikiProject Disaster managementTemplate:WikiProject Disaster managementDisaster management articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Firefighting Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Firefighting, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to firefighting on Wikipedia! If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.FirefightingWikipedia:WikiProject FirefightingTemplate:WikiProject FirefightingFirefighting articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.

South Africa Low‑importance

	South Africa portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject South Africa, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of South Africa on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.South AfricaWikipedia:WikiProject South AfricaTemplate:WikiProject South AfricaSouth Africa articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Former Pass Office

The building, 80 Albert Street, has a notable history as it was built as a Pass Office during apartheid. See https://www.theheritageportal.co.za/article/80-albert-street-nerve-centre-controlling-black-peoples-lives-during-early-stages-apartheid and https://www.heritageregister.org.za/node/464. The blue plaque is visible near the door in some photos of the building after the fire. I haven't found a photo of the building on Wikimedia Commons. Zaian (talk) 16:16, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

SAHRA: Albert Street Pass Office: Grade II Grading Date: 12/02/2015 Axxter99 (talk)

Displaced people

I read online (twitter, I think) that people displaced by the fire were refusing relocation in government-provided buses to emergency accommodation, as they feared they were being used to round up undocumented migrants (with some justification, based on previous actions by officials). Looking for a WP:RS for this. Zaian (talk) 07:03, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Got it, and added to article. Zaian (talk) 07:48, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Disputed death toll

The article says that 76 people died in the fire, however, there are conflicting sources like this one (says 74 people died in the fire), this one (says 74 people died in the fire), this one, (says 74 people died in the fire) and this one (says 70 people died in the fire). Do we change the death toll in an edit or wait for proper data to be released? EnbyPie08 (talk) 00:09, 2 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, tragedies typically have early death figures that are inaccurate given the nature of the event. It is easier to input preliminary numbers and then wait until a more accurate count is done (think Maui fire) as opposed to updating the numbers for a slight increase every 24 hours. In time (perhaps a few more days) the numbers should be confirmed and that would be a good time to update the article. Jurisdicta (talk) 14:46, 3 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I see. EnbyPie08 (talk) 22:43, 3 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The death toll has risen to 77, kindly see here. Bobbyshabangu _talk 19:41, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Worst building fire in South Africa?

I am looking for comparable building fires in South Africa to add to the article, but have not found any so far. As far as I can tell this is the second highest fire death toll (currently 77) in South African history, after the Kinross mining disaster (177 dead). Zaian (talk) 11:03, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Two fatal fires in the Cape York building, a hijacked building in the Joburg inner city in 2013 and 2017, killing 4 and 7: [1], [2]. Three firefighters killed in a 2018 fire in the Bank of Lisbon building in Joburg: [3] Zaian (talk) 07:27, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rissik Street Post Office fire, The building, constructed in 1897, has been vandalised, occupied by squatters and been on fire twice. The famous clock tower has disappeared.^[1]^[2] Axxter99 (talk) 07:58, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Cox, Anna. "Rissik Street post office gets revamp". IOL.
^ "Rissik Street Post Office, Johannesburg | South African History Online". www.sahistory.org.za. Retrieved 2023-09-06.

Category of pictures to the Incident

I went and took pictures of the building after the incident. Kindly find category here: Bobbyshabangu _talk 19:28, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Cox, Anna. "Rissik Street post office gets revamp". IOL.

[2] "Rissik Street Post Office, Johannesburg | South African History Online". www.sahistory.org.za. Retrieved 2023-09-06.

[1]

[2]