Talk:2022–23 snooker season

132 players, not 130 players, because of the 2022 EBSA events

"EBSA European Champion: Oliver Brown" and "EBSA European Under-21 Champion: Dylan Emery" will be getting tour cards, BUT they won the 2021 EBSA events. The 2022 EBSA events are currently taking place in Albania, and the Men's European Champion and European Under-21 Champion will ALSO be receiving tour cards for the 2022-23 and 2023-24 seasons. Please fix the new professional players section to reflect this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.228.241.1 (talk) 21:31, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

I went ahead and made these changes yesterday, then someone (2a00:1858:1002:873b:7035:d4d1:afff:4058) reverted them. Here's a source, https://wst.tv/davies-wins-under-18-title/

"Davies will be hoping for more silverware in the ongoing European under-21 championship which is taking place at the same venue. Completed on Sunday, the winner of the prestigious continental title will be nominated for a two-year World Snooker Tour card."

There's obviously confusion with there being two EBSA European Champions and two U-21 champions (FOUR players total) on tour for the upcoming season, but I believe Covid-19 affected the schedule of the 2021 champions taking their spots last season. Mainly, the EBSA events weren't played until October, when usually they take place in the Spring. 37.228.241.1 (talk) 07:38, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

This has been reverted AGAIN. By this user:

2a00:1858:1002:873b:1920:8051:f546:2b26 - "This news don't say concretely about two-year tour card for the 2022–23 and 2023–24 snooker seasons. This news can say about two-year tour card for the 2023–24 and 2024–25 snooker seasons. There were not causes two champions of the same tournament gained the same two-year tour card together"

That third sentence is not grammatically correct, but I get what they're trying to say. However, I've previously explained above why the 2021 EBSA champions didn't get their tour cards until this season. Simply, because of Covid-19 the events weren't played until October (AFTER the 2021-22 season had started), whereas usually they're played in the Spring, so the EBSA champions get their cards for the following season.

I don't want to keep an edit war going, I understand the confusion of 4 EBSA champions on tour, (2xOpen & 2xU21), but spots for the 2022 champions have already been put in place for the 2022 Championship League starting at the end of this month. Let's not be silly here. 2A02:8085:7160:3B80:1DB7:4898:F4CA:2837 (talk) 08:20, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

This is, in all likelihood the main reason why we shouldn't comment on total number of tour players until the season begins. There is no guarantee that these players will take up their spots. Unless WST bring out a full list, we shouldn't be speculating. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:07, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

All we need at the moment is "about 128" or "roughly 130" or just nothing about the total. Nigej (talk) 09:18, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

Six Red Cancelled

@Lee Vilenski: @Nigej: I'm sure I've asked this before in context to other topics, but from what commentators familiar with the situation have been saying very recently (namely Dave Hendon live on Eurosport), the Six Red tournament is cancelled and will not be happening. I'm unclear why WST is not putting out a public announcement about this, as it appears to have been the case that the event was cancelled at least two weeks ago: indeed, Jason Ferguson of the WPBSA was on the Talking Snooker podcast a couple weeks ago, who basically admitted that administrative changes in the Thailand verison of the WPBSA meant the tournament won't happen. Even though we don't have an official source on WST's website, it feels very wrong to have the Six-Red tournament mentioned as occurring when its clearly not (Eurosport themselves didn't even refer to the event as "coming up" during the Euro Masters, which lends credibility to this tournament not happening), so I was thinking of moving it into a table below the main one that states "event was scheduled but later cancelled", but do we really need to wait for an official source from WST which could come very late? Thanks for guidance in advance. -- CitroenLover (talk) 12:39, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

If it's cancelled, I don't really see the point in mentioning at all in the table Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:17, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

I don't see any particular problem with simply removing it. If we claim it's cancelled we'd need some evidence. Nigej (talk) 13:25, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

I do feel that while we can just remove it, since it was previously scheduled and is now being cancelled, we should make a point of at least saying "it was there, but now its not and heres a reference to confirm". Similar to what they do with F1 season pages, they have a section in which cancelled/postponed races are displayed so people know "X was planned but it didn't happen". Since well, it was the case that Six-reds was planned and was intended to happen until other factors said otherwise, so we should try to at least document that it was a planned event even if cancelled now.

We're probably going to have to wait until the official announcement from WST to be used as a citation since no one is reporting it elsewhere, its all primarily word-of-mouth right now. -- CitroenLover (talk) 16:29, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

https://metro.co.uk/2022/08/28/mark-allen-voices-growing-concerns-over-snooker-tour-people-are-not-happy-17255813/ seems like a decent source to me, confirming that the Six-reds is cancelled but WST can't seem to be bothered to put out an announcement when its all clear as day that the tournament is not going to happen. Page being updated on the basis that it's cancelled. -- CitroenLover (talk) 09:07, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Metro is, sadly a non-RS. I'd argue that it's coverage of snooker isn't terrible, it's links to the Sun make it unusable. These articles should really have prose written, where cancelled events could be commented on. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:15, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Fair enough. That being said, the information about the Six-reds being cancelled is not wrong and since its the only website that seems to want to draw some sort of public attention to that fact [which is at least referenceable], we should keep the reference for the time being. Of course, once WST actually bothers to make a press release confirming its cancelled, the reference should be replaced. 👍 -- CitroenLover (talk) 21:15, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

WST finally managed to put up this short announcement confirming its postponed. I guess they are trying to find some time later in the calendar [ie the New Year] to slot it in, but I've readded the table after the main officially confirmed calendar for listing currently uncertain events, as cancelled/postponed events should be made known to viewers that they were supposed to happen but then got cancelled/postponed. CitroenLover (talk) 17:00, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Rest of Seniors Calendar?

Why aren't we listing the rest of the Seniors calendar, like the Q-Tour and Women's Tour?

https://seniorssnooker.com/tournaments/calendar/

Ben Hancorn and Gerard Greene won qualifying events to play at the Crucible in May, for the Seniors World Championship. MisterRerack (talk) 10:16, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Are they important enough to be included? Clearly there are hundreds of snooker events happening but we limit ourselves to the most important. https://www.snooker.org/res/index.asp?template=2 doesn't include them. If we are to have some inclusion criteria then perhaps that list is a suitable one. Nigej (talk) 14:47, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Well, we're listing the events under the Women's CALENDAR and the Q-Tour CALENDAR, to then list just the one under the Seniors CALENDAR is weird and...ageist? That is the official calendar of seniors events for the seniors tour, per the official Snooker Seniors websites. MisterRerack (talk) 17:15, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

I can see that other events are in the official list. However, using official (ie primary) sources to determine whether information is important enough for inclusion, is often not the best approach, since they'll often try to persuade the public that something is more important that it actually is. Secondary sources like snooker.org are generally regarded as more suitable and, as I noted, their calendar doesn't include the other events, giving the impression that they regard them as pretty unimportant. Nigej (talk) 18:48, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

So...the events on the calendars we list are just events we deem important and not the actual full calendars of these tours? Seems arbitrary. MisterRerack (talk) 23:30, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Why would we include a "full calendar" for events. If we did, we'd have amateur events coming down as far as Ben's handicap doubles tournament in Pembrokeshire. I thought our inclusion criteria should always be that the event is notable enough for its own article. Personally I've always thought we should separate out the different tours to different articles, or at least have one for the professional events, and then split the rest out into 2023 in cue sports like we've done with 2020 in cue sports. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:35, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

"Why would we include a "full calendar" for events."

Because we do for the professional, Q-Tour, and Women's tours? Don't we? Are we missing events from those tours?

"Ben's handicap doubles tournament in Pembrokeshire"?

Is that an attempt at British humour? That was awful. I'm only asking questions about the article here. I'm not taking about pro-ams, amateur leagues, under-21/18/16 stuff, etc.

"I thought our inclusion criteria should always be that the event is notable enough for its own article"

So none of the women's events besides their World Championship, as the rest don't have their own articles? MisterRerack (talk) 08:34, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

I know its tempting to use the "other stuff exists" argument but my own preference is to go the other way. We don't need the Q Tour list here when it is just a repeat of the one at 2022–23 Q Tour. We have an article World Seniors Tour which could do with expansion. Why include the calendar here and not there? As to the women's list, I'd rather see that in a separate article too. Nigej (talk) 08:58, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Indeed. It's also worth noting that it is whether or not it has an article isn't the point - it's if it's sufficiently notable. I don't agree all of the women's events are notable, but some of them certainly are - definitely the UK and a few others. Qualifying events for the Seniors are very much unlikely to fit this bill. We do have an article at World Seniors Tour that would probably benefit from a list of all Seniors events (or at least until it's too long and needs a split). Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:46, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

I would say the Women's tournaments are notable seeing as the top two ranked players are awarded a WST Tour Card, as is the Order of Merit winner on the QTour, along with the Playoff winner.Steveflan (talk) 19:20, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

2023 World Seniors page?

The first day of this event is already finished. MisterRerack (talk) 22:50, 3 May 2023 (UTC)