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Talk:2021 World Figure Skating Championships

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Russia as a country has zero entries in the 2021 world championships

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The table showing the number of entries each country gets in each category has listed Russia, but I've changed it to Figure Skating Federation of Russia. This is correct because, while Russia had been granted 1, 2, or 3 entries in the various categories, those grants have all changed to zero as part of the anti-doping actions. Russia as a country is sending zero skaters to the world championships. To avoid penalizing individual athletes that may not themselves have doped, a corresponding number of Russian skaters in each category have been permitted to compete, but those skaters are representing the Figure Skating Federation of Russia, not the country of Russia. This is an important distinction. Jbening (talk) 21:29, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Mention of ROC doping ban + Criticism and controversies

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Some user removed almost the entire section of those topics:

Russia doping ban

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On 9 December 2019, the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) banned Russia from all international sport for a period of four years, after the Russian government was found to have tampered with laboratory data that it provided to WADA in January 2019 as a condition of the Russian Anti-Doping Agency being reinstated. As a result of the ban, WADA plans to allow individually cleared Russian athletes to take part in the 2021–2022 World Championships and 2022 Winter Olympics under a neutral banner, as instigated at the 2018 Winter Olympics, but they will not be permitted to compete in team sports. The title of the neutral banner has yet to be determined; WADA Compliance Review Committee head Jonathan Taylor stated that the IOC would not be able to use "Olympic Athletes from Russia" (OAR) as it did in 2018, emphasizing that neutral athletes cannot be portrayed as representing a specific country.[1][2][3] Russia later filed an appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) against the WADA decision.[4] The Court of Arbitration for Sport, on review of Russia's appeal of its case from WADA, ruled on December 17, 2020 to reduce the penalty that WADA had placed. Instead of banning Russia from sporting events, the ruling allowed Russia to participate at the Olympics and other international events, but for a period of two years, the team cannot use the Russian name, flag, or anthem and must present themselves as "Neutral Athlete" or "Neutral Team". The ruling does allow for team uniforms to display "Russia" on the uniform as well as the use of the Russian flag colors within the uniform's design, although the name should be up to equal predominance as the "Neutral Athlete/Team" designation. They are represented by the name of "Figure Skating Federation of Russia" (FSR). [5]

Criticism and controversies

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Many countries didn’t manage the same way the COVID-19 pandemic on their land, some countries like Russia allowed athletes to train and compete, and giving an advantage towards many athletes of countries who couldn’t train for a long period of months. Some medias called to cancel the championship for fairness reason. ISU respond by rejecting changes of Olympic qualification rules, thus forcing the federations to participate in those world championships to insure their qualification for the 2022 Olympics. [6][7] The same thing applied to the judges. The judges who could travel without many restrictions have been more available than those who couldn’t, tinting representativeness necessary in the global judge’s pool competition. The scores and the bias observed on this year championships were called “blatant” by many, giving PCS scores and inflated technical scores to athletes to favour some countries instead of others. Those actions are calling for a new reform of judging and scoring system to insure objectivity and rigor toward scores rules application and eliminate collusion and national pre-judgment as much as possible.[8][9][10][11]

The COVID-19 management by ISU has also been heavily criticized. During the months preceding skaters' and officials' arrival in Stockholm, critics of the event circulated a petition calling for the ISU to implement a tighter bubble and stricter quarantine rules that garnered thousands of signatures.[12] The ISU did not address the campaign's concerns about how COVID safety protocols would be enforced at the event.[13] The attendance of the Figure Skating Federation of Russia (FSR) drew particular scrutiny, as the federation was accused of holding several domestic and international events – including a Grand Prix event, the 2020 Rostelecom Cup – in violation of the ISU's COVID safety guidelines.[14] In addition, Russian skaters contracted COVID in multitudes; at least 10 members of Russia's 17-person Worlds team tested positive at some point during the season.[15] Nevertheless, all members of the FSR delegation tested negative during the initial round of testing administered upon arrival in Stockholm.[16] In January 2021, four-time and reigning ice dance world champions Gabriella Papadakis / Guillaume Cizeron of France announced that they would not compete at the World Championships, citing uncertainties regarding COVID; they planned to focus on the 2022 Winter Olympics next season instead.[17] Several other skaters scheduled to compete at Worlds, including two-time and reigning men's world champion Nathan Chen of the United States, expressed during the weeks leading up to the competition that while they were grateful for the opportunity to compete, they had similar concerns about COVID safety protocols at Worlds.[13][18] However, other skaters felt that proper precautions were being taken and that they would likely be safe at the event.[19][20]

I still maintain that we should keep thoses facts and not censored it. TheGreenGiant23 (talk) 09:58, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, removing this content isn't censorship. Editors remove content for any of a number of reasons routinely. Did you read the edit summary accompanying the edit? Second of all, the burden is on you to gain consensus to restore the content. Instead of crying censorship, why not calmly make a reasonable argument for including the content. It will get you further. ----Dr.Margi ✉ 10:08, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Who is deciding? "The burden is on you to gain consensus to restore the content". So, in your logic, some can remove content without discussion and others can't? And accusing me of crying is quite insulting. I'm pointing the fact that a user in particulary always remove content sensible about Russian interests. Pls stay polite. Let's talk about the facts. TheGreenGiant23 (talk) 10:19, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I suggest you read WP:CONSENSUS if you don't know how conflicts regarding content are resolved. I also suggest you reread my comments again, given you largely misread them the first time, given your response.
If you are able to gain consensus to include the content removed, it will require significant revision for grammar, syntax, semantics and for WP:NPOV edits. ----Dr.Margi ✉ 12:33, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
TheGreenGiant23, I think maybe a line can be re-added about differences in training between countries, but it's already somewhat implied by stating Russia has held multiple competitions throughout the pandemic. I reworded the section about the judging system ("The scores and the bias observed on this year championships were called “blatant” by many, giving PCS scores and inflated technical scores to athletes to favour some countries instead of others. Those actions are calling for a new reform of judging and scoring system to insure objectivity and rigor toward scores rules application and eliminate collusion and national pre-judgment as much as possible."), because I felt that the statements you made are not really supported by any of the sources included – there are perhaps some allegations of bias, but I did not see anything calling for "new reform of judging and scoring system" in the articles.
The Russian doping ban has been mentioned and is still on the page, so not really sure how you can argue "censoring". As I stated in the edit summary when removing, I don't think it's necessary to have an expanded section since none of the athletes on the Russian team here faced questions over participation due to doping; it's only relevant in regards to the name they competed under, where it is included on the page. Sunnyou31 (talk) 12:51, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Sunnyou31: Even with your toning down of the wording in the judging section, I think it still implies that judges were biased for/against skaters depending on their national origin, but I don't see even a hint of that in either source. Are there reputable sources for that claim, I wonder? Jbening (talk) 23:55, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Jbening: A data site has assembled this graphic about judges' preference for skaters of their own country that could be added, but it's probably too open for interpretation to be considered a "reputable source." I guess the articles at most discuss TES & PCS being overly correlated, since it's mentioned that Trusova's high TES led to her higher PCS despite her relatively weaker performance. This article also details more about Trusova:

That Trusova fell on two quads (one also called under-rotated) and had a third downgraded became of little consequence. The base values of the jumps and some very generous component scores gave her enough points to win the free skate and snag the bronze medal when Kihira imploded (one fall, two downgrades), finishing ninth in the free. (There is a one-point technical score deduction for a fall. That there is no mandatory component score penalty for a tumble is a discussion for another day.)

Anyways, I'm open to further revisions to the wording, but not a reversion to the original statements about judging. Sunnyou31 (talk) 12:11, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the additional information and sources, Sunnyou31. I certainly don't think it merits reversion. I'm wondering whether bias is even a story worth telling here. The twitter graphs are interesting, but (1) there's not a consistent pattern where one or two countries' judges are more flagrant than others, (2) it's not clear whether 2021 was unusual in this regard or whether this level of bias is standard practice, and (3) it's not clear whether this level of bias from a single judge in each case influenced any standings. As to the NBC Sports article, all we have is one journalist's opinion that the component scores for Trusova were generous. Have there been any articles devoted to the question of biased judging at the 2021 Worlds? Jbening (talk) 13:20, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Jbening: Yes, but it's from a deprecated source, so not usable. However, in addition to the NBC journalist, The Guardian article already referenced on the page also discusses Trusova being an example of "technical bravery [being favored] over artistic brilliance." I believe the other notable mention would be that Japanese media has argued that Yuzuru Hanyu is underscored relative to Nathan Chen; the article interviews a former ISU referee (also from Japan) about Hanyu's scores and one of his speculations is that: "Isn't it because there was no Japanese judge this time?" Sunnyou31 (talk) 14:07, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ MacInnes, Paul (9 December 2019). "Russia banned from Tokyo Olympics and football World Cup". The Guardian. ISSN 0261-3077. Archived from the original on 9 December 2019. Retrieved 9 December 2019.
  2. ^ "Russia banned for four years to include 2020 Olympics and 2022 World Cup". BBC Sport. 9 December 2019. Archived from the original on 11 December 2019. Retrieved 9 December 2019.
  3. ^ "WADA lawyer defends lack of blanket ban on Russia". The Japan Times. AP. 13 December 2019. Archived from the original on 14 December 2019. Retrieved 17 December 2019.
  4. ^ "Russia Confirms It Will Appeal 4-Year Olympic Ban". Time. AP. 27 December 2019. Archived from the original on 27 December 2019.
  5. ^ Dunbar, Graham (December 17, 2020). "Russia can't use its name and flag at the next 2 Olympics". Associated Press. Retrieved December 17, 2020.
  6. ^ Lack of competition the wild card in figure skating world championships, https://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/winter/figureskating/lack-of-competition-the-wild-card-in-world-figure-skating-championships-1.5956393
  7. ^ World Figure Skating Championships: "The whole experience is going to be strange", https://www.scotsman.com/sport/other-sport/world-figure-skating-championships-the-whole-experience-is-going-to-be-strange-3173084
  8. ^ "Russia’s Troika wipes out when the US wins the third Olympic spot in the world of figure skating | Figure skating", https://sydneynewstoday.com/russias-troika-wipes-out-when-the-us-wins-the-third-olympic-spot-in-the-world-of-figure-skating-figure-skating/112876/
  9. ^ "Figure Skating Tears Over Russian Pair S Gold Judges Decision Criticized", https://libya-press.com/after-the-cancellation-of-last-year-return-of-the-world-figure-skating-championships-2021-photo-album/
  10. ^ "New math: Figure skating’s latest recalculations change skaters’ formula for success",https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2020/05/20/figure-skating-judging-changes-nathan-chen/
  11. ^ "Shocking U.S. failures and awesome Japanese successes in men’s short program at figure skating worlds", https://sports.yahoo.com/shocking-u-failures-awesome-japanese-215023568.html
  12. ^ Berkeley, Geoff (March 17, 2021). "Campaigners call for quarantine at ISU World Figure Skating Championships". Inside the Games.
  13. ^ a b Hersh, Philip (March 16, 2021). "Reigning champ Nathan Chen doesn't hide his anxieties about getting to, competing at figure skating worlds in Sweden". NBC Sports. NBCUniversal.
  14. ^ Radnofsky, Louise (December 27, 2020). "Russia's Skating Dynasty Meets Its Toughest Challenger: Coronavirus". The Wall Street Journal.
  15. ^ Cite error: The named reference russia-covid was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  16. ^ Cite error: The named reference russia-covid1 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  17. ^ Cite error: The named reference RS210119 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  18. ^ Ewing, Lori (March 16, 2021). "In a season of uncertainty, skaters Moore-Towers, Marinaro excited to get back on ice". CBC Sports. CBC.
  19. ^ Ewen, Steve (February 26, 2021). "Emily Bausback lands spot at World Figure Skating Championships – but will they happen?". The Province.
  20. ^ Flade, Tatjana (March 17, 2021). "Елизавета Туктамышева: «Очень мало спортсменов вам скажут, что их заставляют ехать на чемпионат мира»" [Elizaveta Tuktamysheva: "Very few athletes will tell you that they are forced to go to the World Championships"]. Olympic Channel (in Russian).

Flag icon for FSR skaters

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We've got an edit/edit summary war starting. Let's move it here and reach consensus. ----Dr.Margi ✉ 19:04, 4 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I think it's pretty clear. It's need to return logo of FSR skaters to this page (like it was did at Wiki pages about other past, ongoing or coming 2021 World Championships at which Russian athletes performed/performs/will perform under logo of the corresponding national federations). If it's impossible to do due to some reasons unknown for me, I don't see any reason to keep blank spaces instead of FSR's logo because Russian skaters didn't perform under "blank" logo. It simply didn't match to real events.
I don't have a strong opinion, but I don't see a particular reason for getting rid of the logo. I see that the Stockholm 2021 official program (downloadable from here [1]) uses the logo and "FSR". Jbening (talk) 03:14, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
[crickets] So are there any objections to returning the FSR logo? Jbening (talk) 18:05, 9 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the problem is that original page with FSR's logo for the 2021 Worlds was been deleted from Wikipedia for the reasons unknown to me. If it's possible to restore or create new page with FSR's logo for using it at this page (about 2021 Worlds) - without violation of Wikipedia's rules, that I don't think that anybody will object this https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:FSR_Team_flag_(2021_Wch).png

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 12:38, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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