Talk:2020–21 UEFA Nations League A

Time

Why don't you use UNIVERSAL times in Wikipedia????? Isn't it easier to convert to your local time in one step??? Using local times for an event force you to know the offset to universal time, then convert to your local time!!!! This is crazy!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Efrainbet (talk • contribs) 19:08, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

Switzerland can still win the group

If they win two matches and the remaining games end in a draw, Switzerland will win the group. 89.70.54.251 (talk) 14:54, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Attendances

@Sir Sputnik and Island92: I am surprised that you actually removed attendance figures I added instead of replacing them with more reliable sources. I understand that Transfermarkt or local media are not great but that's still much better than nothing. As UEFA does not report these figures for a few years and Soccerway ceased reporting them this year, I don't think it is reasonable to rely on ESPN only. In particular:

• Italy v Netherlands. There are many sources that this match was played behind closed doors (for instance, this one in English), why remove it?
• Poland v Bosnia. The match was absolutely not played behind closed doors, it is obvious from the match video that thousands of spectators were present. Polish media all report an attendance of 10,000 (say, this one gives an attendance as exactly 10,000). Given that at covid times arbitrary attendance limits are fixed, it might well have been fixed at exactly 10,000 spectators.
• England v Denmark. Do you really need an additional source that no spectators have attended a football match in England since March?
• Iceland v Belgium. You can hate Transfermarkt, but the attendance figure of 59 is the exact attendance reported by KSI. I don't know why ESPN did not report it but KSI should know how many tickets they sold.
• Croatia v France. All Croatian sources state that there were 7,000 spectators, which was the official limit (source)
• Portugal v Sweden. All sources state that 5,000 spectators was a government limit (example source), and they obviously filled it.

What are your specific objections against these figures being provided in the article? As ESPN did not report any attendance figures for these matches so far, I don't think they will report them at all. Are you OK with these figures being added back (and wrong information removed for Poland v Bosnia)? Thanks — NickK (talk) 12:59, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

I prefer adding always the same source for attendance, from the same website, ESPN in this case, which has not reported yet attendance for matches played on 14 October. Only this date is missing. Don't worry, I'm waiting for it. For the previous edition of the tournament I added (as IP) all the attendance, all from only Soccerway website. But there is a problem now. Soccerway website does not report attendance figures anymore, so I changed for ESPN.--Island92 (talk) 13:15, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

@Island92: Realistically I don't think they will ever report these figures at this point. Pretty much only Wikipedians are interested in attendance figures of matches held a month ago. ESPN journalists have most likely forgot these matches at this point, and unless you have some evidence from ESPN that they are still working of these figures, I think we should forget ESPN for these 14 October matches and use alternative sources — NickK (talk) 13:32, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

I understand your thought. I've been waiting for weeks, I can still wait until the group phase is completed, whether necessary. They don't usually add attendance figures very soon, but when they do that, they report the exactly number of people who attended the match. Therefore ESPN is a reliable website for the attendance anyway. My honest preference is to report the same source, for consistency. As soon as they report data missing, I promise I'll include it in these articles. I really like adding attendance figures, especially for football match and I won't forget to do it for the Nations League.--Island92 (talk) 13:43, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

The link we can trust on. I know, it's a little bit uncomfortable mainly because it's passed plenty of time since these matches were played.--Island92 (talk) 13:50, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

{@Island92: Obviously we can trust ESPN. My question is: do we have any evidence they will actually add these attendances? For instance, have you contacted them, or have you seen them before adding attendances one month after a game was played? As you can see from this edit you made, all attendances I added were actually in line with the ESPN ones. I would think that it is better to have these attendances now than to wait for an ESPN update that would likely never happen — NickK (talk) 19:19, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

No, I've never contacted them. But I'm positive anyway. One day, I don't know when, they will add them. This is a similar occurence that already happened for the Europa League group stage attendance, which they provided after weeks (I'm waiting for group stage Matchday 3 attendance). Unfortunately this is the reality with this website.--Island92 (talk) 19:40, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

I think UEFA needs to report attendance for every tournament they organize, like the UEFA Champions League (example). It would be much better whether they could do it. Attendance for Natons League into pdf format report are not included (example), the same condition as per the UEFA Europa League (example). So, I had used Soccerway website before, subsequently changing for ESPN.--Island92 (talk) 21:15, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

@Island92: I know the UEFA and Soccerway problems. However, regarding ESPN... Europa League started after October Nations League matches. Europa League Matchday 3 matches were just a week ago, while Nations League October matches were a month ago. Why can't we add figures from other sources and correct them if ESPN publishes something different? — NickK (talk) 22:49, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Ok, we can add another source for matches played on 14 October, if you are able to find a single source for each match played that day. As soon as ESPN adds attendance figures I prefer replacing new sources being added by you with those provided by ESPN, especially for the article consistency, having the same attendance source taken from the same website.--Island92 (talk) 23:23, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

@Island92: OK agreed, I will add the sources mentioned above (one source for each match) and I am happy with them being replaced with ESPN once/if they end up publishing figures — NickK (talk) 11:40, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

Perfect.--Island92 (talk) 11:43, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

Done, added the only source having all attendances — NickK (talk) 12:44, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

Well done, I noticed.--Island92 (talk) 13:10, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

@NickK: This new website (https://eu-football.info/) which reports much information (including attendance) for national football team is amazing. I'd like to add this new website for attendance, replacing those provided from ESPN. I can do it once the group phase is finished.--Island92 (talk) 21:47, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

It looks less reliable than ESPN unfortunately, more of an amateur statistical website rather than a professional website like ESPN — NickK (talk) 02:36, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

I'll see what to do.--Island92 (talk) 11:17, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

@Island92: UEFA do actually track the match attendances in their database, however for some reason they decide to not publish it except for the Champions League. Here is an example link (of Croatia v France) in their API, just replace the end of the URL with the numeric ID of other matches to view them. If you search for "matchAttendance" on the page, you will see the attendance of the match. However, I am not sure if we should use this, or how to go about sourcing it. S.A. Julio (talk) 12:06, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

@S.A. Julio: Thank you anyway, but I've already decided about what to do: once the whole group phase is completed, I will include attendance from ESPN website.--Island92 (talk) 13:22, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

@S.A. Julio: Wow, thanks! I added attendances from the API, and I just added the URL as a source (it is clearly reliable and it remains readable). I also noticed that ESPN attendances were always in line with this API, while eu-football.info ones in some cases were not — NickK (talk) 14:10, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

I'd want to say to you that I've changed my previous decision. Once the whole group phase is completed, I will include attendance from the API, adding also the souce for those matches played in September behind closed doors.--Island92 (talk) 15:27, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

@S.A. Julio:, @NickK:. Before I want to do it for 2020–21 UEFA Europa League group stage until group stage matchday 3 (5 November 2020).--Island92 (talk) 15:32, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

 Done--Island92 (talk) 16:49, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi @NickK:. I noticed today you added attendance even for the other leagues. Good job, but there are slightly mistakes to be fixed. Don't worry, they aren't so important to be fixed very soon. As I said, once the group phase is completed, I will add attendance for each match and league, including even the UEFA API source for those matches played in September (all behind closed doors). I will have included these contents by 30 November.--Island92 (talk) 14:00, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

 Done--Island92 (talk) 14:30, 19 November 2020 (UTC)