Talk:2020–21 CSA Steaua București (football) season
 | This article was nominated for deletion on 24 December 2020. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
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Objection to deletion
[edit]Ok, so this page (and another one, for the previous season) was proposed for deletion by HawkAussie. First of all, I am a little tired at the moment so please excuse me for any mistakes I might make. This notice worries me (considering how much effort I put in writing all of this) so I think I should respond as fast as possible. Also, english is not my native language, so please take this in consideration.
HawkAussie, regarding your first reason, about General notability guideline... Let me assure you that even though we are talking about a lower league, every information I wrote can be proved by independent sources. The results, stats and so forth can be found on various sport websites from my country + the site of the Romanian Football Federation + youtube. All matches (or most of them) can be seen on youtube.
Regarding your second reason, about Individual seasons. Again, even though we are talking about a lower league, you have to understand that this team (Steaua Bucharest) is not just any team. It's literally the biggest football team in my country. At the moment, there is a huge debate (and legal actions) about the team's identity. So please understand, the team's notability can't be disputed. This year, the team is in the 3rd division. Two years ago, when the team was in 4th division (so in a lower league than the one in the present), this team achieved the NATIONAL RECORD of stadium attendance for that year, in Romania.
Regarding HOW I wrote these articles... I tried my best to emulate the pages for the bigger european teams. I'm not a tech guy, I don't pretend I know wikipedia 100%, I don't even know most codes work for this site. I tried my best to copy the style on other pages. Also, I took inspiration from the articles dedicated to earlier seasons (like from the '40s, '50s, '60s and so forth). These articles are on wikipedia for years and have even less information than the articles I wrote. Dante4786 (talk) 07:23, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
- This club may have been very successful under its previous incarnation but that has no relevance here. WP:NSEASONS clearly provides scope for these articles when the club plays in a top professional league but clubs playing in amateur leagues don't get as much non-routine coverage, unfortunately. With regards to WP:GNG, we would need some coverage from independent, reliable sources to establish why this needs its own article (not YouTube videos or results listings from the football federation). At the moment it is an unnecessary content fork. Spiderone 13:05, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
- While the team did play this particular season in amateur leagues, you have to understand the importance of this team. I repeat, even though it played in a lower division, this team achieved a NATIONAL RECORD regarding stadium attendance, the record being broken only by the national team. Also, this team has the biggest honours in Romanian Football, even winning the UEFA Champions League in 1986. To put it short, every season counts and deserves its recognition. And last but not least... you say that there would have to be something absolutely spectacular for this to warrant a stand-alone article. And there is, that season was ended abruptly by the coronavirus pandemic. About the sources, please check again. "GSP" is an independent source of information. It's a sport website (and newspaper) from Romania. And one last thing... I wrote that article at the end of the season. I had to backtrack everything. As you can see, I'm writing the article for the current season while the season is unfolding, so of course this one has more information then that article. But both are important, I put a lot of work on these articles, trying my best to emulate the style on other articles. Please don't delete! Dante4786 (talk) 23:27, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
- The national record for attendance and winning the Champions League are totally irrelevant as neither of those events occurred during this season. The fact that COVID ended the season early is also nothing spectacular as many leagues across the world were ended early. In fact, it would have been more remarkable had they continued playing. Spiderone 07:37, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
- The national record and winning the Champions League are not irrelevant. We have to put things into perspective, considering the fact you are questioning the notability of this club. And I disagree, COVID ending the football season across the world is very "spectacular". The last time football was postponed on a global scale was... WWII. And there are other articles about seasons in lower leagues.(just one example: https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/2004%E2%80%9305_Napoli_Soccer_season) I don't understand why you are targeting this team. If I'm willing to record the recent history of this team, I don't understand where's the harm. Also, you didn't acknowledge my response about the source. And for the last time, please don't delete my work. If it's ok with you, I want to remove the
{{proposed deletion/dated}}notice. I followed the rules, I explained myself. It's the holiday season, I will take a break for a few days and I don't want to see these articles gone after 29 December. Dante4786 (talk) 08:19, 23 December 2020 (UTC)- I still don't see anything notable about this season. The Napoli season is in a fully professional league so I understand the reasoning for that. Anyway WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not a good argument. If you wish to remove the PROD then that's down to you as you have the right to do so. Spiderone 08:40, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
- Agree to disagree, then. I don't know about you, but as a football fan in general, Wikipedia is my place to go when I want to read about a particular season. Or about football in general. Also, Steaua's 2020-2021 season is also in a fully professional league. My view is that wikipedia should aspire to document as much as possible. If somebody's willing to put that work in, why not? My hope is to have all season's documented on wikipedia. And not just for this team. As for WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS: "These "other stuff exists" arguments can be valid or invalid". Anyway, I hope there's no hard feelings but I really think these articles should remain. Dante4786 (talk) 11:12, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
- I still don't see anything notable about this season. The Napoli season is in a fully professional league so I understand the reasoning for that. Anyway WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not a good argument. If you wish to remove the PROD then that's down to you as you have the right to do so. Spiderone 08:40, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
- The national record and winning the Champions League are not irrelevant. We have to put things into perspective, considering the fact you are questioning the notability of this club. And I disagree, COVID ending the football season across the world is very "spectacular". The last time football was postponed on a global scale was... WWII. And there are other articles about seasons in lower leagues.(just one example: https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/2004%E2%80%9305_Napoli_Soccer_season) I don't understand why you are targeting this team. If I'm willing to record the recent history of this team, I don't understand where's the harm. Also, you didn't acknowledge my response about the source. And for the last time, please don't delete my work. If it's ok with you, I want to remove the
- The national record for attendance and winning the Champions League are totally irrelevant as neither of those events occurred during this season. The fact that COVID ended the season early is also nothing spectacular as many leagues across the world were ended early. In fact, it would have been more remarkable had they continued playing. Spiderone 07:37, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
- While the team did play this particular season in amateur leagues, you have to understand the importance of this team. I repeat, even though it played in a lower division, this team achieved a NATIONAL RECORD regarding stadium attendance, the record being broken only by the national team. Also, this team has the biggest honours in Romanian Football, even winning the UEFA Champions League in 1986. To put it short, every season counts and deserves its recognition. And last but not least... you say that there would have to be something absolutely spectacular for this to warrant a stand-alone article. And there is, that season was ended abruptly by the coronavirus pandemic. About the sources, please check again. "GSP" is an independent source of information. It's a sport website (and newspaper) from Romania. And one last thing... I wrote that article at the end of the season. I had to backtrack everything. As you can see, I'm writing the article for the current season while the season is unfolding, so of course this one has more information then that article. But both are important, I put a lot of work on these articles, trying my best to emulate the style on other articles. Please don't delete! Dante4786 (talk) 23:27, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
- This club may have been very successful under its previous incarnation but that has no relevance here. WP:NSEASONS clearly provides scope for these articles when the club plays in a top professional league but clubs playing in amateur leagues don't get as much non-routine coverage, unfortunately. With regards to WP:GNG, we would need some coverage from independent, reliable sources to establish why this needs its own article (not YouTube videos or results listings from the football federation). At the moment it is an unnecessary content fork. Spiderone 13:05, 22 December 2020 (UTC)