Talk:2019 Hellenic Premier League

Teams

@Bs1jac and Lugnuts: See this post here. There are six team participating in the tournament in two groups. The other three teams are local clubs in Greece. So not all matches are international matches. And also this is the only thing I found about the tournament.Human (talk) 19:44, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

@A Simple Human and Lugnuts: Yes I saw that. So as far as we are concerned one group is of interest and there will be a final for that group. The other half is not relevant. We can perhaps mention that the international 'series' formed part of a bigger event. Bs1jac (talk) 19:47, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

@Bs1jac: At least we just add the tournament final after the group final so that we know who won the tournament. Human (talk) 20:42, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

@A Simple Human: I am thinking just a comment at the end of the prose, along the lines of 'The winners of the international section beat/lost to (Club) in the grand final'. The club section doesn't meet notability criteria for inclusion, and it has basically been organised so that there is an international T20I triangular series that sits within an otherwise minor event. As far as the article (and CI) is concerned, the winner is the team that wins the international section. Bs1jac (talk) 21:28, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

@Bs1jac: We need to rename the article as Greece Trination series because calling it Hellenic Premier League will mean the entire tournament and people will be confused with the sources and the article information. In that way we can avoid the non-notable matches. Human (talk) 21:38, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

@A Simple Human: I think it's fine so long as we make the prose clear that club sides also competed in a seperate group, and that the winning national side played the winning club side in a grand final. Don't need (and probably won't get!) full details from those games. If the national side wins overall there is no problem. If the club side wins, we just need to decide whether to put them as winner in the infobox or put the national team with a footnote stating that they lost the grand final. Bs1jac (talk) 21:43, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

@Lugnuts: Format has now changed. Instead of each group having a final, the winners play the runner-up of the other group (i.e. non-international matches) in semi-finals. Therefore Greece and Bulgaria will only play each other a second time if they either both make the final, or both go into the third-place playoff. I have commented out the 'final' (which was the international group final) for now. This now makes it difficult to consider the 'international' section as a stand-alone tournament within the overall event. I doubt we will be able to include details of the non-international matches in order to cover the whole event, but it's a bit odd to only partially cover it (previously we were just going to refer to the second group and the 'grand final', while covering details of the international section). I guess we just cover the one group, and then state in the text that there were semi finals and then Greece and Bulgaria played a T20I in the final/3rd place playoff if it happens? Bs1jac (talk) 11:10, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Yes, just a few lines of text to explain what you've said above would be fine. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 11:11, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

But CI has given a T20I number to the game which was supposed to be played today... I had edited the grounds list based on that... Ankurc.17 (talk) 15:46, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

@Ankurc.17: And that is why you shouldn't really add details of records/lists until a match has actually started (and not just that Cricinfo says it is scheduled), especially for these low profile events. Similar to the 2019 Valletta Cup where the orders of matches on CI was wrong from the start (they have adjusted this now), the coverage of this event has been unclear and CI presumably set up based on what they originally heard. But as mentioned above, the semi finals were actually across groups and not between the top two in a single group. Bs1jac (talk) 19:42, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

@Bs1jac: CI removed the final. So the numbers now match. Ankurc.17 (talk) 07:19, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

@Ankurc.17: Cool, thanks. Bs1jac (talk) 07:24, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

Number of matches

Anonymous IP editors keep changing the number of matches from 10 to 9, stating thay there were 2 groups with 3 games in each, plus 2 semis and a final, making 9. The references on Facebook, including images of the schedule, all show 10 matches (including a 3rd place-play off). If that match never happened then fine, but all of the references indicate that it was scheduled and so needs disproving before changing the infobox. Just recording in case of a continuing edit war. Bs1jac (talk) 22:40, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

Format

@Lugnuts and Ankurc.17: The group winners played the runner up of the club group and vice-versa. However, according to Greek and Bulgarian Facebook pages, there WAS a group final played between Greece and Bulgaria (which Bulgaria won); separate to the rest of the tournament. If this is correct and the match was a T20I, then T20I match numbers for various tournaments will need adjusting again when Cricinfo catches up. I propose therefore that the article be adjusted so that the infobox is purely for the international event (with Bulgaria winning), with the prose explaining the sequence for the semi-finals etc of the overall event (which Greece won). Let's wait for Cricinfo though! Bs1jac (talk) 12:07, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. Good old ICC, not knowing what matches are taking place! Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 12:17, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

I have added details of the 'international final' (no cricinfo link yet), referencing an extensive Facebook post. I figured there were two ways to do this. One being to leave it as it is, with score details of the international matches and prose for the rest, and listing Greece as the overall winners. This makes sense to me from here. The other option would have been to move the page to 2019–20 Greece Trination series and list Bulgaria as the winner, with a footnote about it being part of a larger event. For Associate international cricket in 2019–20 though, do you think we should list Bulgaria as the winner, as they did win the international event (and will presumably be listed as winners on Cricinfo)? Bs1jac (talk) 13:03, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

Sounds good to me.... This is going to be a thing going forward with International status for any match being played... Ankurc.17 (talk) 17:16, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

@Lugnuts and Ankurc.17: Well it seems that there is a bit of a social media arguement going on between someone linked with Greece and someone with Bulgaria. BUL claimed to have won a final and loaded a scorecard of all their matches including the second against Greece (which makes sense). But someone from Greece is suggesting that they won 'both' tournaments as they won the international bit on run rate (doesn't appear to make sense...if the final doesn't count, Greece won on points... if it does count then run rate is irrelevant). My guess is the confusion comes from Greece 'winning' the group stage and therefore playing runners up of the other group in the semis for the HPL, but losing the standalone final, hence winning the group but not the international tri-series. Will continue to watch! Bs1jac (talk) 22:43, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

@Bs1jac: The best way would be to wait for CI to update it. They are unofficially the go to page for all Cricket related stuff... Even CricHQ doesnt have any info on the tournament.Ankurc.17 (talk) 01:30, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

Yep, bit of a mess here! You've sourced what you can, lets see what CI does. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 04:30, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

Source

@Lugnuts and Bs1jac: What's the source for the Scorecards? CI doesn't have them yet.. And going by the way the Pacific Games were covered.. can't seem to think they would update it as well. Ankurc.17 (talk) 04:10, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

@Ankurc.17: Hard to read scorecards for Bulgaria games are on their Facebook, and for the Greece-Serbia game a version was provided in personal communication from the Greek association to a multi-sports result collator on Twitter who shared with me. Much is not readable though, so still waiting for the cricinfo cards... must be a record delay! Bs1jac (talk) 06:54, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

@Ankurc.17: Finally 3 of the 4 matches are now in Cricinfo. Match 2 (Greece-Serbia) is currently missing, and so players listed as making their debut (in CI) are wrong for matches 3 and 4 at present. Also the umpire that it says is English... pretty sure he is Greek! Bs1jac (talk) 10:04, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

That's great... Ankurc.17 (talk) 07:18, 5 November 2019 (UTC)