Talk:2011 ATP World Tour Finals

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Discussion of YTD rankings

As published on May 16 the current top 10 in the table are correct. Based upon the numbers on Barclays official page it is still unclear to me how Del Potro is allowed to have 4 additional minor tournaments points with missing only one mandatory masters (two overall and has one 500), while Söderling (missing non-mandatory MC and has one 500) and Almagro (missing none has two 500) are both only allowed to have two. If the rule is that you can only fill up missed events and not upcoming ones (which is the case) with the minors then Söderling should have an advantage over Almagro. The 500 section and their applying rule still needs to be fixed (not mentioning the Davis Cup, which isn't counted in for Berdych as a fourth 500, while the rule clearly says so, Nadal and Djokovic have their DC results added...). Any suggestions what the maths can be? Lajbi ^{Holla @ me • CP} 12:02, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think I got the point. Those you are not commitment player (2010 Year-end top 30) can have the the upcoming tournaments places filled with minors, while the others have to wait for the mandatory tournaments to come and be added to their score. I guess that's it. Lajbi ^{Holla @ me • CP} 12:04, 19 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Although that doesn't fix the Davis Cup question. Lajbi ^{Holla @ me • CP} 12:07, 19 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

~sigh~ Milos Raonic's points are also unexplained by commitment:he is uncommited so he could have minors over the 2-limit but that would result in a tenth place on the current race. Despite that official source shows Gasquet at 10th so Milos must have a result ignored without(?) reason. Lajbi ^{Holla @ me • CP} 12:30, 19 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Let's say 250 can fill up masters (including MC) for non-committed players and the 500/DC problem is still unsolved. Lajbi ^{Holla @ me • CP} 12:34, 19 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

With the Monte Carlo Points, the Monte Carlo is counted as a 500 event when it comes to ranking points. And it it doesn't mean that you play Monte Carlo you should count as one of your 500 event points. Dencod16 (talk) 10:42, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes I know that (as I put it up originally in the contenders' table. The question is the Davis Cup rule. For some of the top 10 it is counted for others it is not (and none of them filled their 500 limit). Lajbi ^{Holla @ me • CP} 11:20, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Tour" column

In the table of qualifiers here (also at 2009 and 2010, singles and doubles) there is a cryptic column titled "Tour". Explaining what this column means might be a good idea. My educated guess would be number of tournaments played during the year (probably excluding DC and WTC), but I'm not sure enough to edit it myself. 85.226.206.229 (talk) 16:21, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmm. It's funny. I'm not sure despite I was was the one who implanted it in.

I copied the table from 2010 ATP World Tour Finals, which has a this coloumn, but e.g. Rafael Nadal in that table has 16 tournaments, which is the same as in his ATP 2010 player activity but 4 less than in his ATP 2010 Year-end Ranking (20). So it must be a total number but in this article it isn't refreshed yet. Still I think it would be more logical to add a Number of tournaments needed to qualify coloumn since this table is not a "year-end rankings" table and that would show how successful a player was to achieve qualification. Lajbi ^{Holla @ me • CP} 16:53, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nicolás Almagro

There's no hell of a way a possible reason for Nicolás Almagro to have 1610 points like the Official page says [1]. EXCEPT - relying on maths - there is one unexplainable count, which can only result that : taking out one of his 180 result (Barcelona result from the 500 field is the least ridiculous to do so) and adding both of his minor tournament results (Heineken Open's 90 and the 3rd 250). Also there is no apparent reason behind this as per this the 90 points from Heineken Open 100 % doesn't included... Lajbi ^{Holla @ me • CP} 08:04, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Or an another option is to take out his Monte-Carlo Rolex Masters 90 (non-mandatory event) and replacing it by adding all three 250 titles. I must note that as far as I understand non-mandatory only applies for the choice of entering not for points counting so if a player competes there his result must be counted. That also brings up the question : why can't Söderling have his (third biggest-105) minor points counted though he missed the MC? Lajbi ^{Holla @ me • CP} 08:22, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm confused with Almagro's scoring. I was under the impression that, if you ended the previous year in the top 30 rankings, only your two best 250/challenger/future events are counted (including the World Team Cup), but if you end with a lower ranking than 30, it's your best four. Almagro is the ONLY player in the top of the race, with a year-end top 30 ranking, to presumably have three 250-level events counted. This is weird, because the 3rd 250 victory was NOT counted in the rankings, for on the week after he won it, his ranking points stayed the same. Is there some special policy that applies to Almagro that doesn't apply to Soderling, Berdych, Gasquet, Cilic, or Fish? And why don't Almagro's 90 points from Monte Carlo count, the only player where they don't count? He still has an open 500-level space, with no Davis Cup points...furthermore, Almagro's current ranking points are 1875. So, assuming Almagro has 1610 instead of 1450...I find it hard to believe that for the rest of last year, he only accumulated 265 points. Of course, I've been saying for a while now that the ATP systems need a BIG overhaul (bringing back the ATP race for official use, make the ATP rankings more on merit than the rolling system which allows ranking and seeding inflation the following year, make the rankings much less confusing and explain why they get some points but not others, and bring back 5-set finals, etc...) GAThrawnIGF (talk) 23:38, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

And actually, that official listing is all messed up. According to the ATP Finals website, Nadal has 6390 YTD points. But he had 6410 points when he qualified for the Finals, and an additional 45 after London. So how can he suddenly have less points than he had when he qualified?GAThrawnIGF (talk) 23:46, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I guess it's just because the list only shows the June 6 status since the other tournaments were ongoing and they update it weekly (that concerns everything on the ATP website). That's why it was up to the text to highlight he still needed that victory and points over Matthew Ebden, and so the qualification date is June 8. The list is correct as of June 6 and it is the only official source we can stick to. Lajbi ^{Holla @ me • CP} 14:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There is actually a new rule, where if you have done your commitments to the 500 events and you did not occur any penalty from the 500 events due to withdrawal you can record a 3rd 250 event, which will replace your lowest 500 events points. Dencod16 (talk) 09:15, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

And that also applies to MC right(as it is considered an 500)? That would be fine. Maybe I'm mistaken but Almagro yet only has three 500 tournaments of the 4 needed to fulfill his commitment...Anyway I leave the table as it is now with the MC bracketed. Lajbi ^{Holla @ me • CP} 14:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There's the obligation to enter an 500 after the US Open, that's his fourth. Ok he's done. Lajbi ^{Holla @ me • CP} 14:36, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Monte Carlo

"The Monte-Carlo Rolex Masters is a non-mandatory Masters event. 'A' indicate an Absent player. Those participated will lose the chance for a fourth 500 tournament to be added to their score" This is not true Monte Carlo counts as a 500 event except for the points distributed and prize money. If you play Monte Carlo and your have 4 500 events higher than Monte Carlo, thus Monte Carlo will not be recorded in your points. Dencod16 (talk) 09:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I will correct it. Lajbi ^{Holla @ me • CP} 10:54, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

matchstat.com, tennisxxx.com, tennisyyy.com and similar betting sites

And don't want to start this all over again but last year's discussion (please click) and subsequent cleanup led to the conclusion that these sites tend to ignore some matches and their database are full of holes and factual errors. Please avoid using them there is itftennis.com, which can perfectly do the job. I've already had to correct one head to head ([2] [3]) these errors won't occur using the proposed site. Lajbi ^{Holla @ me • CP} 12:58, 16 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, found another error with FYRSTENBERG/MATKOWSKI and the BRYANS. I have to go through the whole table...again thanks to these fake sites. Lajbi ^{Holla @ me • CP} 07:43, 17 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Or you can just wait for the offical programe/media guide to come out. Which I have just added. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.243.207.43 (talk) 22:59, 17 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. It eased my headache of fixing this amount of errors. It just pisses me off that people still can't make difference between real databases and ad-hoc tennis pro-looking sites. Lajbi ^{Holla @ me • CP} 10:38, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yannick Noah's drug allegations

I was thinking about creating an entry (like Controversy) about this topic although I'm not sure where is it appropriate to insert to. I'm thinking on merging it here since it happened simoultanously and affects the players. Any ideas? Lajbi ^{Holla @ me • CP} 07:25, 21 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Andy Murray/Janko Tipsarovic

I could't find anything in article to explain why Janko Tipsarevic is now in place of Andy Murray. Most of it is about what happened during the year and records, i thought this was supposed to be about the finals? Bobbymaestro (talk) 06:23, 25 November 2011

It can be found within 2011 ATP World Tour Finals – Singles. Lajbi ^{Holla @ me • CP} 08:17, 25 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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