Jump to content

Talk:2011–2012 Iranian protests

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sources

[edit]

These are on the wikipedia current events portal. Shouldn't they be included in the article?

notable

[edit]

there has been ONE protest, which is perfectly suited to the arab world protests article, others with MORE protests dotn warrant a another mpage (bahrain), this seems like pov-pushing as the bete noir of the west )see the relevant reactions) is lord forbid having a [minor] protest. whats come off it? 1 day, a few people Im not saying it doesnt sdeserve to be on wikipedia, it does, but nothing warrants an entire page for it.

the tags were removed citing "clearly meets notability and referenced" but the prod tag says "However please explain why you object to the deletion, either in your edit summary or on the talk page." for which there was no reason given. please discussLihaas (talk) 20:03, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, there have been a few earlier ones over the last week. However, three hundred thousand people is nothing to sneeze at.Ericl (talk)

350 000 - ha ha ha oh come on.... There were 35 000 0000 :))

21:08, 14 February 2011 (UTC)


  • First off, you are NEVER allowed to re-add a PROD once it has been removed, regardless of the reason. The PROD rules state "If any person objects to the deletion (usually by removing the proposed deletion tag), the proposal is aborted and may not be re-proposed." In terms of removing it, it states "You are encouraged, but not required, to also: Explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion, either in the edit summary or on the talk page." I will do so now, but I was not required to do so. You were completely out of line by adding the PROD back onto the article.
Second, if you are going to remove content, make sure not to remove references that are used in other parts of the article. By removing the information about the president of Turkey, you messed up the Forbes reference that was used elsewhere and I had to fix it.
Lastly, there are more than enough sources for this article to meet notability standards. If this event turns out to be transitory and there is no long-term effect, then it can be merged back into the general Arab world protests article, but not until the result is known and the protests die off. Also, the protest is not just a few people, it is thousands of people. SilverserenC 20:15, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
it also said to explain a reason for removal (i quoted above), and at the time it was only 1 protest not "protests" which meant the other page is more. though it seems more now and 2 people have commented which is a consensus from talk as opposed to the page reverting alone.Lihaas (talk) 19:26, 15 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You beat me to it.

[edit]

Feel free to delete this:Iran protests 2011.

Kinda beat you to it by a lot. :P SilverserenC 21:09, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Headline news article

[edit]

I expect this will be on the main page shortly. Can anyone direct me to the discussion area where people add news articles to the "In the News" template transcluded on the main page? Master&Expert (Talk) 23:09, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You can find that at Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates. SilverserenC 23:11, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Since you haven't added it yet, I hope you don't mind if I do. SilverserenC 00:07, 15 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Nevermind, you did. Dang, ITN is complicated. SilverserenC 00:13, 15 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I logged off shortly after posting this topic due to circumstances beyond my control, but am now able to check it out. Pretty obvious it's going to be on the main page shortly, if it isn't already up there. 350 000+ protestors? That's major. Master&Expert (Talk) 00:48, 15 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Appropriate image?

[edit]

Perhaps a different image could be put up? The current image seems out of line with Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. Vis-a-visconti (talk) 10:17, 15 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

yes, agreed. i checked commons but there wasn't anything yet. just a normal photograph of protesters is the way to go. Ocaasi (talk) 15:28, 15 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. Though I wish you luck on finding any images of the protesters. The Iranian government seems to have the entire area locked down and foreign media are being kept out, period. Our only chance would be if one of the protesters sends out some images and they would qualify under free use. SilverserenC 17:14, 15 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I think, until we get ahold of an image of the protesters, we should go with the image style that is being portrayed in 2011 Bahraini protests, with just an image of the country and its location. SilverserenC 17:16, 15 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I have no problem with the image.... But I would prefer an image showing the incoming of good things rather than outgoing of the bad things... What about using some of the pictures used in Iranian Green Movement? Xashaiar (talk) 17:45, 15 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is that doing so would be biased. We cannot show support for or against the protesters, we must remain neutral, which includes using a neutral image in the article. SilverserenC 17:46, 15 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. But Truth is most neutral. I am afraid most of the time the neutrality policy used in wikipedia is in effect a tool of scarifying the truth.... Xashaiar (talk) 18:04, 15 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
What sort of truth are we trying to get across with such an image? SilverserenC 18:06, 15 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The dictators are lined up like ... you know! Xashaiar (talk) 18:08, 15 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
However, that is not a neutral statement. Even using the term dictator is inherently non-neutral if being used as fact on Wikipedia. SilverserenC 18:15, 15 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree on this. But back to the issue, if a free image comes out and shows injured people by basij militia or armed forces all over streets, using it would be fine and neutral and the truth is told. Xashaiar (talk) 18:08, 15 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I would agree with that, yes. But the current use of a political cartoon is not neutral. SilverserenC 19:04, 15 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

[edit]

There has been a disagreement on whether or not the current Iranian protests should be linked to previous Arab-world protests. One side believes that the Iranian protests were spurred on by events in Egypt and should be classified as related - the other believes that, since Iran is not an Arab nation, grouping the two makes no sense.

Please note that any editing of this article related to this (including reversion of other editors) will result in a block.

I'm making this section as a forum for mediation; any opinions are welcome. m.o.p 05:17, 17 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, i can not see any relation between 2010–2011 Arab world protests commonscat and this article. if a commonscat really needed, Iranian presidential election 2009 protest can added. it is more related.–ebraminiotalk 08:27, 17 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know why an admin was called in on this. Discussion is already under way on the Arab world protests article about a name change so that it can include places outside of the Arab world. Per that, links and template boxes about the Arab world protests are to remain in this article. SilverserenC 08:47, 17 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Adding the label Arab World protests, misleads the reader into thinking Iran is an Arab country. While the recent protests in Iran, may have tangibly related to the ones in arab world, the template in question, does not belong here, as it essentially labels the protests as a part of the Arab World protests. --Wayiran (talk) 14:37, 17 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The template should be in this article, but it presently is not. I can't reinsert it because of 3RR. --Muboshgu (talk) 14:38, 17 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Silverseren, there's been an edit dispute over whether or not the template should be included. I'd like to gain consensus on this so that we can work further. m.o.p 14:50, 17 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The edit dispute is silly. If a reader somehow believes that Iran is Arab because it is in the related section of the template, which indicates that these protests are related to the ones in the Arab world (considering they began as a response to them), then that is that reader's problem, but I sincerely doubt that will happen to many readers, if any. I'm sure a curious reader will then go over to the Arab protests article, which clearly has Iran and other countries in the "Outside the Arab world" section. SilverserenC 21:00, 17 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The edit dispute may have seemed silly to you, but clearly not to many others. The Scythian 04:19, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Per suggestion by Master of Puppets, here are some sources that suggest the happenings in Iran and Egypt are related.[2][3][4][5][6][7] --Muboshgu (talk) 15:39, 17 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'll add to that list [8][9][10][11][12]. Those directly group or connect them. These reference them in the immediate context: [13][14][15][16][17]. They are so related it's not even funny. Whether they are literally part of the same movement is a needless debate; as in, it's not necessary for that to be the case in order to place See Also links, or Templates, or Related sections--and especially not while the situation is in flux. Worst case scenario, we can just throw in a quick hatnote that says: Iran is not an Arab country but has been mentioned directly in relation to the ongoing protests around the Middle East.


A new combatant enters the ring, eh? Don't worry, Silver seren, I can handle things. Keep building consensus, though. m.o.p 08:17, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, you can't cite those "articles" as some kind of "proof" that the template belongs on this page. Doing is so, is violation of WP:SYNTH, and Egypt protests having been connected to Iranian protests, does not mean that Iran is somehow a part of the "Arab protests" whose definition is protests in Arab world. The heavy-weights like BBC and Economist, clearly make the distinctions, BBC calls it protests in Middle East to include Iran, and Economist does not include Iran at all, in it's shoe-thrower index, exactly because Iran is not an Arab country. Just because some in the Western media, are clumsy and stupid enough to think that Iran is somehow a part of the "Arab world" or "Arab street", does not mean that we have to repeat the same editorial errors here. To give you an example, Evening Standard had printed this [18] on their front page, after several angry letters from their readers, they changed the title from "Arab protests" to "turmoil in Middle East" [19] and printed an apology on their website acknowledging that they had made an editorial mistake to include Iran as part of Arab protests: "Your point is absolutely correct, and we are grateful for you and other readers who have contacted us. We apologise for the error." [20] . You guys are not from the region, you don't understand the sensitivities of labeling Iranians "Arab" or their protests as part of "Arab protests". Like it or not, Iranians do not like to be mistaken for Arabs, it's a very sensitive issue. So no matter how many times, you guys gonna insert this template into this article, given the nature of this topics, and the high traffic of Iranian users here, some Iranian user or editor, will come along, and remove it, so my suggestion to you is to either drop this, or find a more inclusive title for that template to solve this issue. Kurdo777 (talk) 03:18, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The 2010-2011 Arab world protests article is in the process of being moved to 2010-2011 Middle East and North Africa protests. So, can you please wait a day or two? The move should be sorted out by them and the template will be changed to reflect that. And then the template and links will apply to this article. SilverserenC 03:24, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Why are you telling me to wait? I just made a comment, I haven't edited this article in 4-5 days. If the move, goes ahead, then this is a non-issue. Kurdo777 (talk) 03:30, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That's his point, that the move is likely going ahead, and the inclusion or exclusion of Iran from that template will be moot. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:33, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Also, what you're talking about, the sensitivity of Iranians to anything that could be perceived as classifying them as Arab, sounds like it could be a form of systematic bias by Iranians to push too hard to separate even valid comparisons between Iran and the Arab world, like in this case, which fails to consider the worldwide view. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:40, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I do not see how it is the bias of the so-called Iranians you are so concerned with, when the two in fact are not one in the same. A greater concern should be of those who wish to combine all things "Iranian" under all things Arab. If anything, that is a form of bias that quickly falls into the realm of revanchism, prejudice, and outright racism. Sort of like saying any person who looks "Asian" is Chinese, etc. Not a nice way to go about viewing a nuance filled world, me thinks. As for the connections Iran has to any of the protests in the Arab world, the connection is nil. The Iranian protests of 2009 never really stopped, while back in 2009, no Arab states suffered any turmoil as a result of the unrest in Iran. More to the point, the current government of Iran supports the protests in the Arab world as much as their own protesters do. Something lost on the English speaking media, sadly. The Scythian 04:10, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Arabs hate to be called Persians. Iranians hate to be called Arab. Ancient civilization-scale beef. Got it. However sources--credible, national, international, news organizations have consistently mentioned these countries' protests as related phenomenon. We don't have to take common mistakes and just repeat them, but there's a much higher bar when the 'mistake' of relating the protests has been made over and over in multiple credible sources. 'Arab world protests', has been the WP:Commonname for many news outlets, which we used for the convenience of our readers. And while that's going on, we don't want our readers to be uninformed about other events that share similarities and have been reported on as being related--hence the templates and links. Scythian, the Iranian protests share very clear patterns with other Arab world protests, namely because they are both against authoritarian governments. The government of Iran supports the protests in the Arab world, but not the protests in Iran! That is the common thread, and religion/ethnicity have been only tangential to the major thrust of the demonstrations. Ocaasi (talk) 18:20, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
And this is the greater point, that the Iranian protests are related to the Arab world protests. Iranians don't have to be Arab for that to be true. And nobody is suggesting that Iranians are Arab. Meanwhile, the Iranian government does purport to support the Egyptian protests, but of course are trying to put down their own. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:32, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going to ignore your borderline racist rant, and try to get to the "meat" of your posting here. Plenty of articles and newscasts are linking the protests in Iran to events currently taking place in the Arab world, for various reasons. From Iranian government involvement in Bahrain, to Iranians being "energized" to protest by the events in Egypt. None are referring to Iran as being a part of the events inside of the "Arab world," and certainly not repeatedly. In reality, the protests in Iran that started in Iran in 2009, never really ended. The Iranian protests had zero effect on the populations of the Arabic speaking nations at the time or presently, and largely went unnoticed. For now, western news sources are linking the two, but that probably won't be the case in the long term. I am curious, then. Are the events and protests in Pakistan, currently against U.S involvement in their nation, also apart of the "Arab world" to you? Does anyone who happens to have a certain "look" to you, immediately qualify as Arab in your worldview? If that doesn't reek of bias and outright bigotry, then I don't know what does. The Scythian 18:57, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I don't appreciate you intimating that I'm a racist or that I don't know what I'm talking about. All this is about is the simple fact that there is a connection between this and the other protests that are going on/have recently happened. You are starting to get disruptive. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:43, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oh boy, here come the threats. First vandalism warnings on my talk page about this discussion, and now accusations of "disruptive behavior." The fact that you feel that Iranian editors are somehow biased towards inclusion of Iran in the Arab world was the first accusation of bigotry thrown around here, and it was thrown by you, and is in fact a biased argument to begin with. Now, if you don't mind, lets get back to the topic at hand. The Scythian 20:00, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone else add this?

[edit]

There's information in this source about what the IRIB television network is saying. I'm too pissed off at how badly they are lying to add this in neutrally to the article. IRIB is trying to twist things around and say that it was pro-government people that were conducting the funeral and were then attacked by the protesters, when what really happened was the exact opposite. Freaking lying...

Yeah, someone else will need to add this. Just make sure you phrase it as "The IRIB television network stated" or something to that effect so our readers know we're not stating fact here. SilverserenC 03:25, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yah, that is the typical cynical spin/lie approach of the IRI. Down is up and black is white. I'll go ahead and add it. The Scythian 03:50, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
that was total pov, i reworded. if were going to attack and accuse one side then at the least balance with the other pov. were not pushing an agenda here, this is an encycolpedia not a blog or twitter or facebook.Lihaas (talk) 05:32, 27 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Watch your language by the way . 173.178.93.250 (talk) 00:35, 16 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Cleanup?

[edit]

What needs to be cleaned up exactly? If I don't get any response here in a day or two, i'm going to remove the tag, because you're supposed to explain on the talk page what needs to be cleaned when you add that tag. SilverserenC 22:56, 20 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes , this article does need clean up . Well only becuase it does not describe if it is justice country or not. 173.178.93.250 (talk) 00:29, 16 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Siverseren, you should note this on the error desk. Noting here will not be much help . Nice try though. 173.178.93.250 (talk) 00:32, 16 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry, but what does "justice country" mean exactly? SilverserenC 00:39, 16 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ahwazi protests

[edit]

Recently wide protests with significant casualties (at least 15 dead) have erupted in Ahwaz, in the majority Arab populated Iranian south-western province of Khuzestan. The question is whether the Arab protests in Iranian province of Khuzestan are an integral part of 2011 Iranian protests (i added the relevant info on 15-18 April protests in Khuzestan for now), or those are unrelated protests, which should be split into a separate article named "2011 Arab protests in Iran" (or something like that). The background is clearly very different for 2011 Iranian internal protests and 2011 Arab nationalistic protests in Khuzestan. Any opinions whether segregation to be made?Greyshark09 (talk) 10:25, 24 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think the information is enough now to be split into its own article. But if it does get long enough and is split, I think it would be appropriate to have a summary here that links to that article, since they are at least tangentially related. SilverserenC 10:30, 24 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Day of Rage ×2

[edit]

The phrase "Day of Rage" regarding February 14's major protests, then regarding a smaller one on April 15 in Ahwaz, should be in the article text. Many sources support this announced name of a protest day:

February 14
April 15

Both uses of "Day of Rage" should be reported here in the article. Binksternet (talk) 15:37, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I had Day of Rage in there for April 15, but it was removed by Kurdo, not to mention the removal of info about arrests and such, all in the name of WP:UNDUE, which is something Kurdo has been seriously misusing on this page. I mean, of course. I'm sure he'd feel much better if there was no information about the protests at all in the article, but, unfortunately, I found more sources and he can't just say that they're all unreliable. So, instead we get "trimming" in the name of WP:UNDUE, removing information about arrests and government censorship. SilverserenC 20:37, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think the UNDUE guideline ought to be distorted by using it to completely remove information that is widely reported. Certainly, it can be used to prevent this widely reported information from taking over the article, but a mere mention is absolutely allowed. An examination of the case looks like Kurdo777 is preventing a neutral telling of the Arab side of the story. Per WP:NPOV we should tell the reader about "all significant views that have been published by reliable sources." Binksternet (talk) 20:50, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Pretty much. I'm just not sure how to deal with this properly. Any information I try to add in just ends up getting removed. I mean, he said Al Bawaba has no editorial oversight, which is obviously not true. SilverserenC 21:04, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"obviously not true" because you say so? Where is your proof that this random "news, blogging" site has editorial oversight? It's up to you to establish that Al Bawaba meets the threshold set by WP:RS. Kurdo777 (talk) 00:23, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Both of you need to be mindful of WP:NPA which tells you to "Comment on content, not on the contributor". Binksternet has also violated the terms of his conditional unblock, by what appears to be a resumption of his stalking of me. My only concern here is the implementation of Wikipedia policy . As for WP:Undue, the material should be relative to the article subject and coverage given in the media. The event in question is one of dozens of events that are subcategories of 2011 Iranian protests, but as it is, this particular event is given more weight than events that were much more widely reported and relevant to the topic, that is what we call WP:Undue. Kurdo777 (talk) 00:18, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm here because the Al Arabiya source was brought up on the reliable source noticeboard, and I commented on it there. I came here to see how it was being applied. Regarding UNDUE, the guideline is not a blank check authorizing the complete removal of widely reported events. Binksternet (talk) 01:38, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You're sort of walking a fine line here. Last time, you also had a similar excuse for stalking me , that didn't help your case though, did it? As for Undue, it is certainly not a blank check for removal, but by the same token, being sourced is not a license for automatic inclusion in a page , that's why we the editors take careful care of what we add into an article, and the relevant appropriate weight of the content. We don't just dump whatever we can fish on Google that suits our POV, into a page, and then cry it's sourced, it can't be removed or trimmed down. Kurdo777 (talk) 03:57, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I feel like it might be better to just make a separate page for the 2011 Alwazi protests and just do a summary style section here with a main page link. SilverserenC 01:48, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
WP:POVFORKing will not solve the problem. If this particular event deserves a separate article, then so does every other protest listed on this page, all of whom have had FAR MORE media coverage than this event. It won't pass WP:EFFECT, WP:INDEPTH, WP:DIVERSE, and WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE. Also, the title itself would be a clear violation of WP:AT. Kurdo777 (talk) 03:45, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
While you, on the other hand, extremely violate WP:BASH. Listing off a whole bunch of links to policy pages is not a discussion argument. You're just using them to obfuscate the discussion, instead of using a word-based rationale.
As for what you're actually saying, the protests in Ahwaz are extremely different from the rest that have been occurring in Iran. One main thing that points to this is that it is involving people, Arab Iranians, who haven't been involved with the protests themselves and are protesting for a different reason, rights for themselves as a people. Furthermore, this article is meant to be a hub article discussing everything occurring with protests during the year. But that doesn't mean that separate protests involving different peoples in Iran can't have their own articles that are just linked to from here, especially when we're considering protests that are significantly different from the other protests that occurred earlier this year. SilverserenC 04:02, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That's still a WP:POVFORK. You're avoiding the key points here. Does this news event have lasting effects? No. Does this event have passing or lasting significance and continued coverage in the media? No. Does this event have diversity of sources or has been mainly reported by "media channels under common control or influence " ? You may say yes, but most people will say no. There is not even a Wikinews article for this event! It's simply not a notable news event with lasting effects worthy of a separate topic. Your rational that this would be a topic about a "separate people" who " haven't been involved with the protests themselves and are protesting for a different reason" (1) shows your strong POV, and soap-boxing tendencies (2) is a confession that this section doesn't even belong in this article to begin with, which was my original position. Therefore, the section should be merged into Human rights in Islamic Republic of Iran or Politics of Khuzistan. Kurdo777 (talk) 04:17, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In this regard i would like to point the attention to the 2005 Ahwazi unrest, where Kurdo has been perticularly active, trying to delete the article, later trying to erase most sources (claiming unreliability and UNDUE) and eventually trying to rename it. I would ask other editors to show some attention to the ongoing actions in the second article as well, and give your opinion on the rename procedure there.Greyshark09 (talk) 21:38, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

File:2011 Iranian protests.jpg Nominated for Deletion

[edit]
An image used in this article, File:2011 Iranian protests.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Deletion requests June 2011
What should I do?
A discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (commons:COM:SPEEDY has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs.

This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 06:06, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ahvaz riots in Iran - part of the Arab Spring?

[edit]

On April 15th 2011 and the following days, extensive riots spread across the Iranian province of Khuzestan, initiated by the Arab minority there, in order to mark 6 years since the violent events of "15 April Intifada" or 2005 Ahwazi unrest. The April 15th 2011 events resulted in some 12-15 dead,[1][2] many injured and hundreds of arrests. The events in Khuzestan had been included in the 2011 Iranian protests, however since the current article has been renamed to "Arab Spring", rather than "2010-2011 Middle East and North Africa protests", Iran has become exluded from the scope of the events. The question is - do we relate to 2011 Arab protests in Iranian city of Ahvaz, as part of the Arab Spring, or is it just impact of the Arab Spring, like the rest of 2011 Iranian protests arena? Please discuss it the discussion section of the Arab Spring article.Greyshark09 (talk) 20:02, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

{{Reflist}}
  1. ^ Saeed Kamali Dehghan (April 18, 2011). "Iranian Sunni protesters killed in clashes with security forces". The Guardian. London. Retrieved June 3, 2011.
  2. ^ [1]

Xb2u7Zjzc32 (talk) 23:33, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

After discussions, it seems there is no consensus to include the 2011 Ahvaz protests within the scope of the "Arab Spring", and more importantly - we have no sufficient sources to make that link. Hence, unless some good sources for this are found, we don't include Ahvaz protests in the Arab Spring article, but possibly in the Impact of the Arab Spring article. Nevertheless, there seems to be a solid claim to separate the 2011 Ahvaz protests from the 2011 Iranian protests article, as virtually no sources at all link the Ahvaz protests to the Green Movement - making Ahvaz a completely separate case. The Ahvaz protests are extensively described by WP:RS and might be even more notable than the Iranian Green Movement protests of 2011. According to the Amnesty report there are continuing consequences of this event in arrests, executions and sanctions upon Ahvaz population, further emphasizing the notability of this event, see here [21].Greyshark09 (talk) 15:55, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Move to 2011–2013 Iranian protests.

[edit]

The protests are ongoing, so the title should be updated. Charles Essie (talk) 20:43, 21 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

2011–2013 Iranian protests

[edit]

I have a question, there have also been protests outside of Iran, is it ok if i add that under the Iranian protests too? or should it put somewhere else? --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:17, 6 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am just going to ignore Irānshahr's POV edits to the article, which I have reverted, as they seem to think that any information that isn't directly about a protest going on isn't related. Anyways, as to your question, i'm not sure if I see how these protests in 2013 are actually connected to the ones before. They seem to involve entirely different people protesting for entirely different reasons from the prior Green Movement protesters. Not to mention that we're going to need better sourcing than a link to Youtube. SilverserenC 06:21, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No. You can explain why individual edits are questionable in your view. This isn't a blog about Iranian politics or a list of quotes by people. There is no evidence of a two-year-long chain of protests here. Barely two weeks long. Irānshahr (talk) 07:23, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Silver seren

[edit]

I qualified each of my edits. Irrelevant information is correct to be removed. You will have to take each of my edits on their individual merits and justify why that particular edit is questionable. It may be the case that some of them are, but you will have to make a case for that. I gave reasons for each edit - you need to give counter reasons, and use diffs for each particular edit. Irānshahr (talk) 07:16, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I remind you: address my edits individually - because they were performed individually with specific individual reasons. I am free to redo any edit that you do not counter-justify. As far as POV is concerned, I'm not adding anything to the article. I'm not adding POV, I'm removing it. You want to keep POV in the article, including such ludicrous things as "Azerbaijanis taking to the streets to protest the drying up of Lake Urmia", and quotes of various "unnamed sources" from Al Arabiya and Israeli news agencies, to mention just a couple of the ridiculous things the article contained. This talk page hasn't even been active since 2011 - pretty strange if there has been a two-year chain of protests.

All you are doing is inciting violence between Iranians. Half of this article consisted of opposition blog commentary, trying to give the false impression that protests were happening. Your support of that is POV, my removal of it is a NPOV.

You cannot aggregate dissident quotes together with reports of things like: "2 people were arrested (in month X)" and "Azerbaijanis taking to the streets to protest the drying up of Lake Urmia" and fashion it as a real protest movement. Attempting to do so is POV.

I have no interest in adding anything to the article, nor in removing anything that is relevant and reliably referenced ie. 6 months of dissident quotes calling for protests without any actual protest is not relevant - but propaganda. Or, a handful of arrests in month X, on hearsay reported by an anti-Iran agency is not relevant - but propaganda. The weekly blog postings of Iranian dissidents is not relevant - but propaganda. Using references such as "How U.S. Support Could Lead the Opposition to Victory" is propaganda. Irānshahr (talk) 07:27, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Let me keep this simple to start with. This article is covering the general protests occurring in the region during this time period. This includes any information related to the house arrest of opposition leaders Mousavi and Karroubi, as this was one of the backbone reasons for the Green Movement protests continuing on through 2011 and 2012. Certain events listed in the article I would agree with the removal of, but it is hard to have a discussion when you remove everything after February of 2011. Just because you want this article just to cover that time period doesn't mean that's what it is actually covering. Furthermore, it is quite obvious that protests continued in 2012, so it is completely inappropriate to remove the information pertaining to that.
It seems to me that you're just trying to censor the article from information that looks negative for Iran, such as the removal of information on the use of child soldiers during the protests.
And your arguments on the sources doesn't appear to be justified. Al Arabiya appears to be used once in the article and is noted as the "Saudi-owned pan-Arab news channel,Al Arabiya", so the readers are being informed that the information could be biased. And, yes, there are a few uses of Haaretz and Ynetnews in the article, but they are far and few between, with the vast majority of sources being completely fine. Alternative sources for those few uses of inappropriate ones can easily be found. SilverserenC 09:13, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "This article is covering [...] any information related to the house arrest of opposition leaders Mousavi and Karroubi"
  • That can go in their respective articles; if it's notable enough. It shouldn't be aggregated blog-style and fashioned and presented as a large-scale prolonged protest movement.
  • "it is hard to have a discussion when you remove everything after February of 2011."
  • Please describe here what happened in terms of protests after 1 March 2011. Present it and let's see if you have a point or not.
  • "Just because you want this article just to cover that time period"
  • What evidence can you present to show that - in terms of protests - this time period is wrong?
  • "it is quite obvious that protests continued in 2012, so it is completely inappropriate to remove the information pertaining to that."
  • Evidence?
  • "It seems to me that you're just trying to censor the article from information that looks negative for Iran"
  • Oh, so I am supposed to support information that looks negative for Iran, right? Like you? Rather than be neutral.
  • "removal of information on the use of child soldiers"
  • "Soldiers"??
  • "Al Arabiya appears to be used once in the article"
  • It was used several times actually.
  • "yes, there are a few uses of Haaretz and Ynetnews in the article, but they are far and few between, with the vast majority of sources being completely fine."
  • The vast majority of sources are still in the article. And the ones I removed were utilized to cite irrelevant information as already described.
A reminder on what I said half an hour ago:
There is no evidence of a two-year-long chain of protests here. Barely two weeks long.
I have no interest in adding anything to the article, nor in removing anything that is relevant and reliably referenced, ie. 6 months of dissident quotes calling for protests without any actual protest is not relevant - but propaganda. Or, a handful of arrests in month X, on hearsay reported by an anti-Iran agency is not relevant - but propaganda. The weekly blog postings of Iranian dissidents is not relevant - but propaganda. Using references such as "How U.S. Support Could Lead the Opposition to Victory" is propaganda.
You will have to take each of my edits on their individual merits and justify why that particular edit is questionable in your view. It may be the case that some of them are, but you will have to make a case for that.
If there were actual real protests going on we would all know about it. We all know what an uprising looks like. There is no national-scale protest movement like in Bahrain, Egypt, Tunisia, et al. Irānshahr (talk) 09:40, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There actually happened protests in 2013 and the other places around 2012, here is one of them in 2013: http://www.ncr-iran.org/en/news/iran-protests/13281-iran-more-farmers-protests-over-water-shortages.html --HistoryofIran (talk) 09:58, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Farmers in Isfahan protest over water shortages? This is typical of the region. It can't be used to fabricate a narrative of a national uprising in order to mislead people for political propaganda purposes. It has nothing to do with those who want to overthrow the Iranian government for ideological reasons.
On top of that: this is being reported directly from a French-based Iranian opposition group. What a joke. Irānshahr (talk) 10:51, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This is not a joke, this is the truth, whether you like it or not. --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:36, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You've been served with a warning. You've already openly declared yourself as a POV-pusher on my talk page:
Quote: "Oh come on, no need to remove it all, this would show how the Iranian people actually feel so there would be more people finding out that their regime is corrupt :(" [22]
Do you want to be reported to admins? Because you will be. You've already been blocked for edit warring four weeks ago.
I've made two reverts today, I will not make another. Instead, I'll give you time to put forward a counter-argument to my points. Even though you've already throughly discredited yourself as a neutral and rational editor. Irānshahr (talk) 12:06, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Report me then, actually it's you that should be reported, because i have done nothing wrong, it's you that remove sources and much more, if you are so glad for the regime then go join their Mullah brotherhood, and what does POV mean? i don't think i am one even if i don't know what it means, the only one that have discredited anything is you.

And don't delete what you said, let the admins decide, here is what you did actually wrote to me but you have deleted it, and now you have added it back.

Quote: "You want to see what's happening in Syria happen in Iran? What an Iranian patriot. There are millions of hardcore government loyalists in Iran who will go to war to defend the Islamic Republic. Foreign-backed ethnic separatists will have a field day on the back of a civil war. But great work, patriot.:(" [23]

--HistoryofIran (talk) 14:22, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Joke article

[edit]

Connecting farmer protest with Mousavi? This article should be deleted because there was no any organized political protests from 2011 to 2013, or redirected to List of protests in Iran. --46.239.50.93 (talk) 12:23, 16 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You're right. There is no connection between these sporadic protests mentioned here, and the article mixes up different things, from drought in Western Iran to solidarity with Arab protesters, to media censorship. It looks like a projection of desires of some part of Iranian opposition (or even the diaspora), but has nothing to do with reality. The opposition has been in total disarray since the Ashura protests in 2009. --Emesik (talk) 10:32, 17 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This is not only about Mousavi, this is about other protests too, people's goal are a Regime change and secular democracy as stated in the source, and some of them are about other things like some of the Arab protests, no need to go on deleting-spree and delete half of the information and neutral sources. And you are not neutral about this, you wrote this: sons of Pahlavi hookers get out of here --HistoryofIran (talk) 11:19, 17 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mousavi is one of the most hawkish Iranian politicians (see his involment in founding Hezbollah, reopening nuclear program, etc.), and you want us to believe his supporters are "regime changers" or "secular democrats"? LOL. You're speaking about neutral sources but you quoted Guardian who isn't mention anything about such views, and there is NONE source which mention continue protests from 2011 till this day. It's pure political manipulation, but I'm affraid Iranians and other English-speakers aren't interested about views by one lad from Denmark. Sorry. --46.239.47.122 (talk) 14:49, 18 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You are still not neutral, and there is actually sources, if you used your time reading them instead of deleting all what you see, last warning, i have written the warning on your profile too, next time you can say as much as you want to the admins, and maybe get blocked too. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:45, 18 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No they aren't. Above you have used link from terrorist organization MEK and in summary you wrote "supporters of the Islamic republic can get out of here". Well, welcome to 21th century dear kid, perhaps you and your father still dream about early 70's when he was well-paid officer of former brutal regime, but it's - history. You took right nickname indeed. If you want to spread anti-Iranian agenda, try to your parents, not on Wikipedia. --46.239.23.12 (talk) 10:17, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Please be more polite, Wikipedia is not for rude people, i have already written to a admin about you, and i am not spreading anti-Iranian agenda here, but you are breaking the rules here. --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:36, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm still waiting for ONE source which mention continue protest from 2011 to 2013 (?!). Name is violiting WP:SYNTH, and you have been presenting even agricultural and ecological protests as political. This is one of the worst (and dumbest) pamphlets which I saw in Wikipedia for years. --46.239.23.12 (talk) 15:08, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry but which article are you looking at? there are many sources, please take a look again, you are breaking the rules, and i am reporting you. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:12, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There are many sources about September 11 attacks and Boston Marathon bombings, but you can not collect them in one article called Terrorist attacks in USA 2001-2013. Perhaps you can make List of protests in Iran (like List of terrorist attacks in USA), but you can not put infobox about two political sides and proving some long-term protests by adding farmer protests or ecological protests. It's not just violiting WP:SYNTH, but pretty much retarted because it's imply farmers, bazaris and ecologists are supporters of Mousavi or Kourubi. --46.239.23.12 (talk) 15:23, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Actually i deleted the farmer protests, because it had nothing to do with it, i don't know about the Arab protests but the rest is about the Iranian protests, and who said that all supported Mousavi in the protests? he was involved in some of the protests but not in all of them, have you even read the sources and the article? i think not. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:27, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Please don't play games, Irānshahr was first who removed farmers, and you put it back. Then I removed it, and you put it back again. After I warned about notorious WP:SYNTH, then you accepted to leave it removed. The same goes for ecological and bazaris protest; I removed it, and you put it back three times and started to warn me like I'm kind of vandal. In infobox you're also forcing uncited number of "1,534 arrested", and regime change and secular democracy as goals despite it isn't mentioned in Guardian article. --46.239.23.12 (talk) 15:40, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am not playing any games here, i am being serious, and take a look here: http://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=549237657&oldid=549237588#2011-2013_Iranian_protests

The admins said that what Iranshahr did was wrong, they will probably say the same to you if you continue this, and what's wrong with the Bazari protests? no need reason to delete that, and that was not the only thing you did wrong in, you changed many things and removed other info with neutral sources, and plus you changed it to February 2011 protests in Iran, and Iranshahr did not only remove the farmers, he did the same thing you did and then the admins said that it was wrong to do it like that, and are you saying that no one got arrested in the protests or what? and the sources about regime change and secular democracy is true, the sources are good and it said that too, do you think it was for fun many big groups of Iranians in more than 2 years have protested? Just asking. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:57, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for being impatient but are you going to write back to me? --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:15, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think so. The concept of whole article was to present real political protests which happened in late February 2011. Persian Wikipedia has article about it; it started and it finished. Wrong with bazari protest is that it's irrelevant with article by all means - chronology (it happened later), type (economic protest, not political), result (no clashes with security), etc. Considering "neutral sources", YouTube video of naked Communist activist in Sweden from 2013 is relevant to this article? I call it ridiculing encyclopedic project, something like renaming 2011 England riots to 2011-2013 English protests because few protested during funeral of Margaret Thatcher or because some Iranian mullah has made anti-UK speech on YouTube. In past two years I've spent months in Iran (mostly Tehran) so I can confirm there was no any kind of protest. Perhaps you wish there was, but it's your own illusion. --46.239.23.12 (talk) 16:23, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What's wrong with the Youtube source showing the women? it showed that they were protesting so i don't see anything wrong with it, so all this that is showing is my illusion? i don't think so, congratulations, you have been in Tehran in 2 months! but this is not about that, and the Persian Wikipedia also shows another map of the Sassanid empire than it does in English Wikipedia, the Azerbaijan Wikipedia says some famous Iranians are Azeris, does that mean it should be the same in the English Wikipedia? NO.

And all those protests are related to each others, well except the farmer protests and the Ahvaz protests are not. --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:30, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm ignorant of most of this subject, but I have some questions of clarification. I see that 2009–10 Iranian election protests exists. Why is there no argument to create 2009-2013 Iranian protests? And why is 2013 in the name 2011-2013 Iranian protests? I see no mention of anything in 2013 in the article or any past revisions that I've looked at. -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 16:39, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This is one of the reasons why we are talking about this, it used to look like this: http://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=2011-2013_Iranian_protests&diff=550790109&oldid=550749607, until 46.239.23.12 came and deleted much information and neutral sources and made into what it is now. --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:42, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Step by step:

More clear? --46.239.23.12 (talk) 16:47, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mufka, there's no need for such thing. There are articles Iranian Green Movement and Occupy movement in the United States so there isn't any need for creating 2009-2013 Iranian protests or 2011-2013 US protests. People may get that Iranians and Americans are protesting on street every day, but that's far from reality. --46.239.23.12 (talk) 16:52, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I was about to comment that support only in YouTube isn't really sufficient to convey credibility to a protest. Separately, the article title is not 2011-2013 protests in Iran so a protest in Sweden isn't that farfetched. -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 16:56, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]


Actually the MEK is only considered a terrorist nation by Iran and Iraq, but nice try. And this is about Iranian protests, not Protests in Iran, so i don't see why other countries can't be included, and the video about the Iranians in Sweden can be used, the rules says this about Youtube: YouTube and other video-sharing sites are generally not considered reliable sources because anyone can create or manipulate a video clip and upload without editorial oversight, just as with a self-published website. However, official channels of notable organisations, such as Monty Python's channel, may be acceptable as primary sources if their authenticity can be confirmed, or as a secondary source if they can be trace to a reliable publisher. Videos may also be used as a convenience link for material originally published elsewhere. In all cases, care should be undertaken to ensure that the video is genuinely authorised by the copyright holder.

And the Iranian protests in Sweden is uploaded by that kind of user, and the protests are related to each others, do you even read what i write? so you are saying all the Iranian protests in 2012 and 2013 is fake because you don't agree with it? sorry to say so but they are real and the sources are neutral and real. --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:59, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mufka, when some IP is deleted content from article there's 90% chance of vandalism, but I assure you not this time. I removed things like:

  • Youtube videos (personal)
  • like Communist activists protest in Sweden
  • like imigrant protests in Germany
  • Irrelevant protests
  • farmers and bazaris protest (economic type)
  • ecological protest for saving Lake Urmiah

Even some parts from 2012 are irrelevant because it's says that opposition leaders "called for protests", protests for student rights, etc. However, he complied everything in one renamed article so all of them become "Green movement followers", "regime change demanders" or "secular democracy supporters". Tragicomic. --46.239.23.12 (talk) 17:06, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

HOI, name of this article was February 2011 protests in Iran until you renamed it to 2011-2013 Iranian protests. --46.239.23.12 (talk) 17:12, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Edit Conflict: The source of the Sweden video might qualify, but I can find no hard evidence that it came from a reputable news source and not some activist organization. The other video does not. Surely some mention must exist in a news report elsewhere. I'd like to understand how the protests beginning in 2011 have no connection to the 2009 protests. What is the appropriate grouping? Is it possible that the February 2011 protests stand alone and anything since falls under a general protests category? -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 17:14, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]


The name of this article was actually 2011-2012 Iranian protests before i changed it to 2011-2013 Iranian protests because there were events in 2013 too, please be careful what you say and don't lie about me.

The Bazaris protests are not irrelevant, and it was not because of economics, was it for fun that they shouted: Death to the dictator, please go read about it in the news in English or in Persian, and you can ALSO see that they shout Death to the dictator on Youtube, and i already removed the farmer protest, how many times do i have to say it? and you right about the Lake Urmia thing, but you deleted much more than what you say, and the Sweden protests are good enough, please take a look on the rules you just showed me.

And there is nothing wrong with that, there were neutral sources on, you can't just remove something with neutral sources just because you don't like it.

And yes Mufka, there were actually news about it, that was how i found it out, it must be somewhere. --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:15, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

HistoryofIran, I suggest you find the other sources per WP:PROVEIT. What about the rest of my question? -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 17:27, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Last renaming was yours (HistoryofIran moved page February 2011 protests in Iran to 2011-2013 Iranian protests). Considering 2013, you put protests from Germany and Sweden linked with YouTube. Slogans about so-called "dictators" are irrelevant not just because Iran doesn't have such but it could be easily manipulated by journalists or even few political activists on site. It was protest of pure economic nature. Fans of Esteghlal and Tractor Sazi are oftenly making slogans against eachother but it doesn't fit to encyclopedic article Separation movements in Iran. I'll repeat - it was not you who removed farmers, but one who put it back until I warned on talk page about WP:SYNTH. Finding news about protests in Sweden or Germany would be irrelevant because it's not in Iran and such protests aren't related neither to February 2011 protests or Green movement in general. If you want to put them somewhere, try with People's Mujahedin of Iran, Swedish Iranians or Iranians in Germany. --46.239.23.12 (talk) 17:32, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, English is not my best thing, so i may have misunderstood your question, but i will try: The 2009 Iranian protests started because the Iranian regime cheated in the president election, first they began protesting because they cheated in the election, but later Iranians demanded change of regime and it was spread to the Iranian diaspora around the world, there are many speeches about it.

And this is to 46.239.23.12:

Will you stop lying? do i really have to show it to you that it was named as 2011–2012 before i changed it, here it is: http://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=2011-2013_Iranian_protests&diff=549034556&oldid=541419119

And once again, you disagree with something that is real because you don't like it, and how can it be manipulated by journalists or even few political activists on site? since you are an Iranian you can go read about it on Iranian sites or watch the video about the protest instead of lying to me, and i actually removed the farmer protest later, or do i have to show you that too? and this article is not only about February 2011 protests and the Green movement, this article is about the 2011-2013 Iranian protests, so that means other countries can be included too.

Ill be right back, i have to get something to eat. --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:41, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

HistoryofIran, perhaps the IP didn't see the article when it had the previous name 2011-2012. He says you made the last move and that is correct. Drop it. Talk about removal of farmers, drop it. Also, stop speculating as to why the other editor wants info added or removed. Commenting on another editor's motivation is pointless and a waste of time. Forget about the current or previous state of the article and make constructive arguments as to where the article needs to go. I suggest you start small and find one thing to agree on first. Perhaps a good place to start is the overall goal for the article. What is the point of the article? What should it cover? -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 17:57, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

HistoryofIran is manipulating with facts just because of his personal political views. Accusations of cheeting are irrelevant because even polls by Western organizations gave advantage to Ahmadinejad before elections in 2009, and minority of Iranians protested in favor of Mousavi doesn't share HistoryofIran's ideas about "secular democracy" or "changing political system". These are facts, no matter anybody like it or not. Supporters for Mousavi are called as Green movement, and they protested few times; in June 2009 (major) and February 2011 (minor protest). Wikipedia has articles about all three: movement, protest in 2009 and protest in 2011 (ruined by HistoryofIran). These two protests are connected because both were led by same movement, but there are separated articles because time (1,5 y) divides them. All of other protests (naked Swedish girls, German immigrants, Teherani bazaris/sellers, ecology activists) aren't relevant neither to Green Movement or HistoryofIran's personal view for "regime change" or "secular democracy". Inductive reasoning is troubling you very much (fox is wise, Susan is wise = Susan is fox). If you want to comply somewhere all protests related to Iran, make article called List of Iranian protests. --46.239.23.12 (talk) 18:08, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Personal political views? no way, now you are lying again, it is you that is like that, please take a look on your other comments, looks like you forget quickly, and you are still personal about this, you are lying about the elections now, everything that you don't agree with you want to be removed, and no, not all the protests were led by the same movement, this article is about IRANIAN PROTESTS, not Green movement protests, if you want to have only Green movement protests then go make a new article about it, and please go read about the Bazari protests or watch it in goddamn Youtube, none of this is wrong, it's just you that don't agree with it because of your own personal views, a neutral source is a neutral source.

And what Mufka told me about i can only say that i agree that the farmer protests, the Lake Urmia protests, and the Ahvaz protests should be moved somewhere else, because they have nothing to do with all the other protests, the farmer protests was because of economics, the Urmia protests was because Lake Urmia is drying, and the Ahvaz protests is because the Arabs in Ahvaz wants to separate, this article is about the Iranians that wants a change in Iran. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:14, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think I see the problem now. You both have no intention of actually contributing constructively and within the bounds of Wikipedia community standards. I invite you to prove me wrong. When you can stop reading each others minds and commenting on each others motivations, and make rational, well supported suggestions for incremental improvement of the article, the process for improvement can continue. Until that happens, you're wasting each others and my time. If you want to blather on at each other, do it on your own talk pages and leave this article alone. -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 18:36, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for that, i will ignore when he writes about something that doesn't have anything related to our discussion, but how can we fix this? the page can't just stand with half of the information and half of the sources deleted for no reason. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:43, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've explained why I remove your irrelevant sources, it's surely isn't "for no reason". I haven't do/write anything not related to this theme, you aviod it because WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT --46.239.23.12 (talk) 19:53, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You explanation was not good, the only thing you said was that it was propaganda and deleted all the sources and info for no reason, you are not neutral about this, and i think this WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT fits more for you. --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:27, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Of course it's propaganda, because when someone is making WP:SYNTH of protests before more then two years with naked Communist activists in Sweden, farmer/ecologic/bazari protest and student activism then rational people should react. I don't see anything neutral in your summary "supporters of the Islamic republic can get out of here" and flags of former dictatorship on your talkpage. Perhaps you confused Wikipedia with private political blog. --46.239.23.12 (talk) 20:43, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Even the admin said that the video of Sweden was good, once again you disapprove something you don't agree with, that's not how the rules are in Wikipedia, please go read them, and the rest is just true with true sources, and that was some time ago i said that, i can see that you have nothing else to say, and the flag is not dictatorship, live with it kiddo, you are still being personal and not neutral. --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:51, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't say the Sweden video was good. Read my comment again. If you're going to read what you want into things, you're going to have a big problem getting anything accomplished. -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 21:03, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well pardon me, as i said i am not the best in English, i misunderstood, my bad, so.. how are we going to fix this? --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:07, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Despite it has been explained about goal issues, user HistoryofIran is persistant in forcing his personal political views in infobox (3RR [24][25][26]). Facts:

  • Anything about "regime change" or "secular democracy" isn't mentioned in given citation (Guardian)
  • Ideology of Mousavi's reformist movement The Green Path of Hope includes Islamic democracy, which automatically excludes "secularism". There are other reformist parties in Iran (they even ruled country after winning on parliamentary/presidential elections) but non of them has goal of "regime change" (changing whole political system), just reforms.
  • Not to mention lobbying around ("he is personal about this and not neutral" [27]) or accusing ("you are just a sock puppet of the other account" [28]).

Such stubbornness hasn't been seen on Wikipedia for long time. --109.165.166.155 (talk) 23:00, 20 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Since this discussion is done anyway i will not let your lies and calling me stuborn be the last thing here.

Since when is this page only about Green Path of Hope protests? this says 2011-2012 Iranian protests, not Green Path of Hope Protests

Well did i say anything wrong? you are not neutral, have you already forgotten all those things you have written?

Stubbornness?, i guess you are mentioning yourself now? --HistoryofIran (talk) 20:38, 30 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

[edit]
The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 16:32, 30 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

2011-2013 Iranian protests → 2011-2012 Iranian protests – The 2013 information has been removed and, I believe, rightfully so, as it wasn't shown to be connected to the main protest nor any of the groups involved in said protest. Meanwhile, we have evidence and sources that do discuss the protest up until February 14th, 2012. This is involving the same groups as during the prior year. For now, that is as far as the sources we have say these protests have gone, so unless further sources are presented that connect to these groups and document later activity, this article should remain as only 2011-2012. SilverserenC 23:49, 19 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, there is some more protests in 2012, but it is deleted, if you ask me it should get back too, because there wasn't any problems with that and some other things, let's forget about 2013, i have added some information that had sources but was deleted, can you tell me if it's good or not? --HistoryofIran (talk) 10:33, 20 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm...I think you should try to find some stronger references for this information before including it. Something that more explicitly states the additions you want to make. Then it's an easier argument on including it. SilverserenC 06:55, 21 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

removing POV tag with no active discussion per Template:POV

[edit]

I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:

This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:
  1. There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
  2. It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
  3. In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.

Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 12:22, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Part of the Arab Spring?

[edit]

I know that Iran is not part of the Arab world, but the above protests coincided with the Arab Spring, and considering Iran's close proximity to the Arab states, as well as their close cultural, historical, and linguistic ties, isn't it safe to say that these events were part of the Arab Spring itself (rather than just the impact of the Arab Spring). Charles Essie (talk) 02:11, 9 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Iranian Naked Women Protesting against Forced Hijab

[edit]

Xb2u7Zjzc32 (talk) 23:27, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on 2011–12 Iranian protests. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 04:07, 23 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:23, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Talk:2011–2012_Iranian_protests&oldid=1196608474"