Talk:2009 Al-Aqsa clashes

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Untitled

Article needs to be revised. Quotes right wing papers such as J post and Ynet.

Please refer to alternative accounts.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hYTesV9e3EbcBnE0OuFYyfEX0UcQD9BIA1N00

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/10/2009102562438423180.html

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-10/26/content_12326086.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.65.7.194 (talk) 01:13, 26 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the sources. If they have information not already included in the article and if I have time, I will include it. You can always be bold and do it yourself. The factual accuracy tag is for cases where one claims that there is material not cited to reliable sources or not actually reflected in the cited sources. Since that's not the case here, I'm removing it. Jalapenos do exist (talk) 21:46, 26 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

On 28 June 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to 2009 Al-Aqsa clashes. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Title is biased

"temple Mount" is a weighted title and assumes that Muslims are in the wrong —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.88.37.151 (talk) 16:57, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I was bold and renamed this page from "2009 Temple Mount riots" to "2009 Temple Mount clashes". Question is if the article should be further renamed to "2009 al-Aqsa clashes" since that was how most media referred to the violence? ImTheIP (talk) 16:36, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 28 June 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 04:06, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

2009 Temple Mount clashes → 2009 Al-Aqsa clashes – Per section above, the majority of independent RS refer to these clashes as being in relation to Al-Aqsa; currently, the article originally relied entirely on ~~two~~ one Israeli source, Ynet. ~~and Jerusalem Post~~ Selfstudier (talk) 09:24, 28 June 2022 (UTC)— Relisting. —usernamekiran (talk) 19:18, 12 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment

Reuters Israeli police stormed Jerusalem’s al-Aqsa mosque compound on Sunday

Reuters Last week 30 people were injured in similar clashes near the al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem’s Old City

LATimes The 45-minute clash outside the Al Aqsa mosque underscored the volatility of Jerusalem’s holy place

Guardian clashed in the compound around the al-Aqsa mosque in the heart of Jerusalem's Old City today.

CNN Street battles began in the Old City on Sunday morning, when Palestinians praying at the site -- known to Muslims as Haram al-Sharif, or "Noble Sanctuary," and to Jews as Temple Mount

Alarabiya following clashes with Palestinians near al-Aqsa mosque compound

AlJazeera Palestinians and Israeli police clash around al-Aqsa mosque

France24 Dozens of people were wounded on Sunday in clashes between Israeli police and Palestinians in and around the Al-Aqsa mosque compound in Jerusalem,

UN, OCHA September "a total of 38 Palestinians and 18 members of Israeli security forces were injured on 27 September in clashes that erupted in Al Aqsa mosque compound in the Old City of Jerusalem, when Palestinians attempted to prevent a group of Israelis from entering the compound"

UN, OCHA October "Half of the Palestinian injuries occurred during clashes in and around Al Aqsa Mosque compound in East Jerusalem. While the clashes were immediately triggered by attempts by Israelis to enter the Mosque compound, they were likely exacerbated by tensions over the recent prevention of the majority of the Palestinian Muslim population from accessing the Mosque during the month of Ramadan."

Scholarly, Trans-Colonial Urban Space in Palestine: Politics and Development (Maha Samman) 2013 "The Israeli police in September 2009 facilitated the entry of the settlers to the Aqsa mosque"

Oppose. They were on the Temple Mount, not specific to Al-Aqsa. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:29, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sources? Same as 2022 Al-Aqsa Mosque clashes. Selfstudier (talk) 13:52, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Most sources use Temple Mount and Haram Al-Sharif together or a general mix of one or the other. The Reuters source above explicitly says that police "did not go into al-Aqsa mosque" and calls the area Al-Aqsa Mosque Compound/Temple Mount/Haram al-Sharif. The LA Times source, says that clashes were "outside Al-Aqsa Mosque", but calls the actual area of the clashes Temple Mount/Noble Sanctuary. The Guardian says "around Al-Aqsa Mosque", but refers to the actual site of the clashes as Temple Mount/Haram Al-Sharif. The CNN link posted above doesn't even use the term Al-Aqsa Mosque in relation to the clashes, Al-Arabiya isn't considered particularly reliable here Al-Jazeera says the clashes were at "Haram al-Sharif, comprising al-Aqsa mosque and the Dome of the Rock, in Jerusalem." Other than Al-Arabiya, all sources use the term Temple Mount or Haram Al Sharif. It seems the justification for the move is based on the articles you provided including the word Al-Aqsa in their text, but they include Temple Mount as well.

"It was the latest flare up in several weeks of protests around the site, known as the Temple Mount or the Haram al-Sharif."

"Fighting between Palestinians, Jewish visitors and Israeli security forces left at least 30 injured on Jerusalem's Temple Mount Sunday, according to police sources."

"Jerusalem's Old City remained calm yesterday, a day after several people were wounded and arrested in East Jerusalem clashes that started at the Temple Mount."

"The police said that their forces had entered the Temple Mount compound twice after Palestinians hurled rocks at officers patrolling there, and that they dispersed rioters with stun grenades."

"Police re-opened the Temple Mount on Monday for Muslim males age 50 or older and to Muslim females of any age, but it remained closed to tourists." Drsmoo (talk) 18:08, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The one (CNN) before it (now removed) is not about any clashes. "Police sources" (Israeli police) and Israeli sources generally only ever use Temple Mount, same problem as this article, relying on Israeli sources and no independent reliable sources. Selfstudier (talk) 18:22, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed link, the CNN link is in fact about the clashes and riots, and does not attribute the term Temple Mount to the police.Drsmoo (talk) 18:35, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That CNN link "after calls were issued in Palestinian media to "come and protect the Mount." is quite ridiculous, Palestinian media would never say something like that. I see CNN's journalist there (and in the link I gave for that matter) jumping through hoops to try and avoid saying Al-Aqsa, lol. But the mosque IS the subject matter as most titles make clear. Selfstudier (talk) 09:08, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Most sources mention the dual naming (something like "known as the Temple Mount [to Jews] or the Haram al-Sharif" [to Muslims]), somewhere in their articles, that is a standard practice boiler plate with newsorgs, that is not the point, the headline/principal coverage itself is actually about the events surrounding the mosque ("facilitated the entry of settlers to the Aqsa mosque", "storming the mosque", "in and around the Al-Aqsa mosque", etc etc and why would it not be so, it is Palestinians/Muslims mainly using the facilities and Israeli forces policing them since it's occupied territory, clashes being the usual result. Selfstudier (talk) 08:54, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

They mention “near Al-Aqsa mosque” as that is a landmark the clashes were near. They call the area of the clashes Temple Mount/Haram Al-Sharif. The links you’re posting affirm that. Essentially every link you’ve posted refers to the area of the clashes as the Temple Mount.Drsmoo (talk) 09:53, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have provided quotes in my comment, if you have other quotes you would like to highlight from the same sources, free free to do so, mere assertion is insufficient. Selfstudier (talk) 10:05, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.