Talk:1972 Sacramento Canadair Sabre accident

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1972 Sacramento Canadair Sabre accident was a Engineering and technology good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
October 27, 2021	Good article nominee	Not listed

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on February 4, 2014.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that 22 people were killed in 1972 when a Canadair Sabre crashed into an ice cream parlour in Sacramento?

Source

Some of the text on the original version of this page is derived from this version of the Farrell's Ice Cream Parlour article. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:42, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Expansion

There's some good stuff to help expand the article here at the Sacramento Bee archives. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:24, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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22 or 23 dead in disaster

A web news source brings list of casualities with these 23 names (23 and not 22): Kristin "Kristi" Dawn Francis; ‎ Billie Gertrude Irwin; ‎ Elaine June Jugum; ‎ Louis "Bud" Jugum; ‎ Nancy Teresa Keys; ‎ Sally Ann Keys; ‎ Brandon Warren Krier; ‎ Jennifer Ann Krier; ‎ Sandra Ann Creasey Krier; ‎ Warren Krier; ‎ Gene Wilson Lavine; ‎ Margaret May Lavine; ‎ Anthony Lloyd Martin; ‎ Gregory Gene Martin; ‎ Jeanene Louise Martin; ‎ Shawn Anthony Martin; ‎ Sue Martin; ‎ Gary Wayne Nash; ‎ Jeffrey Allen Nash; ‎ Nancy Ann Rodriguez; ‎ Joan Southwick Bacci; ‎ Ellen Warram; ‎ Leon Warram

With 22 or 23 dead victims, the word disaster might be better than accident.-Yohananw (talk) 08:31, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The article already says that an addition death occured after the accident, but it was not officialy caused or was a result of the accident which probably where the 23rd name comes from. MilborneOne (talk) 09:29, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Just checked "Billie Irwin" was the victim of the road accident and she appears in your list as the "23rd" victim. MilborneOne (talk) 09:32, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"Survivor"?

Assuming that not everyone who was present in the ice-cream parlor, on the road, or otherwise in the path of the jet was injured or killed in the crash, how is it that the list of "survivors" includes only the pilot? If I was the single person in the ice cream parlor who escaped unscathed, I'd expect to be on the list of survivors. Are not the people who avoided being hit on the road survivors? Especially the people in the car that was struck, assuming they weren't killed. Actually come to think of it, isn't a list showing "23 injured, 22 killed, 1 survivor" kind of flawed in an elementary way? The injured were all survivors of the disaster, even if you don't want to count the numerous people who escaped death or injury even though they were present. I assume what is meant is that "one person onboard the aircraft survived", but it ought to be made more clear.

Idumea47b (talk) 23:53, 24 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:1972 Sacramento Canadair Sabre accident/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Lee Vilenski (talk · contribs) 10:19, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I am planning on reviewing this article for GA Status, over the next couple of days. Thank you for nominating the article for GA status. I hope I will learn some new information, and that my feedback is helpful.

If nominators or editors could refrain from updating the particular section that I am updating until it is complete, I would appreciate it to remove a edit conflict. Please address concerns in the section that has been completed above (If I've raised concerns up to references, feel free to comment on things like the lede.)

I generally provide an overview of things I read through the article on a first glance. Then do a thorough sweep of the article after the feedback is addressed. After this, I will present the pass/failure. I may use strikethrough tags when concerns are met. Even if something is obvious why my concern is met, please leave a message as courtesy.

Best of luck! you can also use the {{done}} tag to state when something is addressed. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)}

Please let me know after the review is done, if you were happy with the review! Obviously this is regarding the article's quality, however, I want to be happy and civil to all, so let me know if I have done a good job, regardless of the article's outcome.

Links

Prose

Lede

Do we have a discription for Richard Bingham? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:56, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"Golden West Sport Aviation Air Show" - is that a quote? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:56, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Twenty-two people died and 28 - should be consistent for MOS:NUM Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:56, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Lede is a bit short, nothing about the aftermath or memorial. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:56, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

General

I feel like the lede is written to be part of the body. If you don't read the lede, the body makes no sense. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:03, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
acknowledged by whom? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:03, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
What's the difference between a passenger and an occupant? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:03, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
earthen berm - a what? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:03, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Do we have a link for the F-86 sabre? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:03, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
And could we state that is the plane that is being flown? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:03, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Seems to be a real lack of links here Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:03, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Freeport Boulevard - what is this? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:03, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Sacramento 49ers - must have a link for this? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:03, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Twenty-two people died, including 12 children - MOS:NUM again Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:03, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
by a vehicle - which vehicle? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:03, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The crash could have claimed many more lives if the external fuel tanks had not ruptured prior to impact, or if the jet had not been slowed by hitting the moving car and other vehicles parked in front of the restaurant.^{[according to whom?]} Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:03, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The Canadair Sabre was a single-engine jet fighter - presumably it still is? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:07, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The aircraft section is particularly short - could we give any more details about this? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:07, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) modified the rules governing the flight of ex-military jets over densely populated areas, and mandated clearance for such flights. - when? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:07, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Pilot requirements were also tightened: they would require a checkout by the manufacturer or militar - checkout? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:07, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Firefighters Burn Institute was instituted - duplicate? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:07, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
And, what is it? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:07, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Review meta comments

I'll begin the review as soon as I can! If you fancy returning the favour, I have a list of nominations for review at WP:GAN and WP:FAC, respectively. I'd be very grateful if you were to complete one of these if you get time. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:19, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Lee, I will get to these comments but as you can tell, the article wasn't quite as good as I had thought, so there's plenty to do. I'll pick the issues off one at a time and get back to you when I'm properly done. Thanks for the review. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 21:31, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Never a hurry for you, friend. There is quite a bit to do, and I know you've got a lot on. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:06, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi The Rambling Man, any chance I can close this one? Or were you planning on updating the article? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:35, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Lee Vilenski yes, fail it please. I was far too optimistic that work I'd done a decade ago was up to today's standards! Cheers. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:03, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for understanding. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:32, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sources