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--JeffGBot (talk) 15:08, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Merger

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A separate article has been created over a redirect for the 104th Aero Squadron, the first designation of this unit. Since the articles deal with the same unit, suggest a merger. --Lineagegeek (talk) 18:09, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

* Reluctant* I understand why this is being suggested, however I would prefer these articles remain separate. The current USAF 13th Bomb Squadron has both the 104th as well as the 13th Aero Squadrons as part of it's lineage and history. It's also one of the oldest squadrons in the USAF. I wrote both the 13th and 104th AS as separate articles because I wanted to have a thorough article about the World War I history of both units as separate organizations. The historians of both squadrons in 1918 included much more detailed information about both units that are recorded in Gorrell's History than I included, and likely will return to these articles after I go though the other WWI Aero Squadrons and expand them.
I also prefer to keep the articles separate as part of an overall inclusion on Wikipedia about the World War I Air Service, United States Army, which in many cases, formed units that were not incorporated into the permanent United States Army Air Service (They are separate organizations, not consolidated as we have them here on Wikipedia (another to-do) as the AAS wasn't authorized until 1921, while the AS, USA, was a temporary organization set up by the Signal Corps after Wilson's Declaration of War.
Also I'll need to go back and expand the 13th Bomb Squadron article in a similar manner to what I did with the 8th Special Operations Squadron with regards to its activities during the Intra-War Period; World War II, Korea and Vietnam (which also has a very interesting history with the B-57G that the 8th doesn't have) as they were both associated for decades with the 3d Group/Bomb Group/3d Wing ..... Just some thoughts Bwmoll3 (talk) 23:10, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment on Above What's your concept for the breadth of the Air Service article -- a category, or what. As for the lineage of the aviation branch, not even Maurer gets it right. If the articles are separated, I believe that the separate article should be that for the 13th Aero Squadron since the 13th Bomb Squadron is the direct lineal descendant of the 104th, not the 13th. There are several squadrons (as I'm sure you are aware) with lineages like this -- a high numbered Aero Squadron was not demobilized, was given a lower number as a Squadron ( ) in 1921 and was consolidated with the Aero Squadron of the lower number (which had been demobilized) in the 1920s. Unfortunate that some became lost in the shuffle.
One continuation you may not be aware of. On 8 January 1973, the 141st Tactical Fighter Squadron was withdrawn from the New Jersey ANG, re-designated the 341st Fighter Squadron and disbanded. Simultaneously, the 141st Aero Squadron was re-designated the 141st Tactical Fighter Squadron and allotted to the NJ ANG.--Lineagegeek (talk) 20:23, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"... What's your concept for the breadth of the Air Service article ..." 24 May 1918 until 4 June 1920 when the permanent US Army Air Service was authorized. Until then the Air Service, US Army was a temporary organization formed in the haste of expanding the Aviation Branch of the Signal Corps. I've asked the AFHRA for information on several occasions for information about units in the 1917-1920 time frame and generally if it's not in Maurer, they usually don't have any.
Although it could begin on 2 April 1917. That would include all of the Aero Squadrons formed with the exception of the 1st, 2d, 3d, 6th and 7th (although only the 1st AS was in France of that group). Reading though Gorrell's History I noted that all of the squadron historians add (AS, USA or Air Service, United States Army) to their signature blocks, including items dated prior to May 1918)... so this is unclear as well Bwmoll3 (talk) 23:07, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I know also there are exceptions to everything (LOL). I included the 141st Aero Squadron to the 141st Air Refueling Squadron article last fall when I was going though the ANG units. Received the information via Dr Haulman at the AFHRA after he referred my inquiry about it over to the National Guard Bureau which sent the information about the unit and its consolidation into the NJ ANG. I know, I'm not being consistent here. Was thinking of separating the 141st Aero out of it and expanding it into a separate article actually. Just some thoughts ... take care :) Bwmoll3 (talk) 22:19, 21 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"... There are several squadrons (as I'm sure you are aware) with lineages like this..." .. one or two yes... 17th Weapons Squadron is another. I'm sure there are more 22:24, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
After seeing the work you've done expanding the 104th and 13th Aero Squadron articles (and other WW I) units, I withdraw my merge suggestion on the grounds of clunkiness. Forgot I hadn't sone so.--Lineagegeek (talk) 22:25, 30 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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