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Talk:"Heroes" (David Bowie song)/GA1

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GA Review

[edit]

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: K. Peake (talk · contribs) 09:48, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]


Good Article review progress box
Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()
3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()
Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

I am going to review this from today onwards, but it may take three days with my work schedule. --K. Peake 09:48, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for reviewing Kyle. Appreciate it as always. – zmbro (talk) (cont) 13:55, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox and lead

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  • Done
  • You should mention what album the song is from in the first sentence
  • "It was recorded in" → "The song was recorded in"
  • The release sentence should be the last one of the para, as writing and recording info is earlier stuff
  • ""from his 12th studio album of the same name." → "from the album."
  • Writing/recording is what led to the creation of the song, so logically it should come before release. Also, I'm not too sure if you should be using an album article as the blueprint for this. --K. Peake 06:19, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "one from East and West Berlin." → "one from East Berlin and the other from the West."
  • "inspired by Bowie's witnessing of a" → "inspired by Bowie witnessing a" to be less wordy
  • Both done
  • I don't think the events in his own life are notable for the lead
  • Are you sure? I included that to solidify the "dark undertones" part (cuz the song really isn't all hopes and dreams like lots think it is), and there's also a whole paragraph in the body devoted to it. – zmbro (talk) (cont) 16:22, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I see what you mean. Removed that.
  • Before going into live performances, shouldn't you add a part about the video synopsis?
  • "versions of the track, titled" → "versions of "'Heroes'", titled"
  • "the single only peaked at" → "the song only peaked at"
  • Why are the higher positions than the UK like Australia and Ireland not mentioned?
  • So I put "but reached the top 20 in multiple European countries and Australia." Not sure if I like it but as it stands the third para is already longer than the others and it shouldn't get much longer. – zmbro (talk) (cont) 19:14, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The reception sentence should be the first of the second para instead
  • "the song's reputation has grown substantially and is now seen" → "the song has grown substantially in reputation and been seen"
  • "a version by" → "a version of "'Heroes'" by" and you should mention the critical reception too; if so, split The X Factor part
  • Mention at least one series and/or film that it appears in
  • Above three done

Writing and recording

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Backing track

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  • Img looks good!
  • "and heroic" and "I had" → "and heroic" and, "I had" per this being a full sentence quoted
  • "took place entirely at in" → "took place entirely in"
  • "a ballroom, and was" → "a ballroom and was"
  • "returning from Low," → "returning from Station to Station (1976)," with the wikilink, per the source
  • "lasting over eight minutes." → "lasting eight minutes."
  • Pipe synthesiser to Synthesizer
  • "towards the end."" → "towards the end"." per MOS:QUOTE
  • Pipe ARP Solina to ARP String Ensemble
  • A citation should be at the end of the first sentence of the fourth para per usage of a quote
  • Wikilink bassline
  • Pipe register to Register (music)
  • All done, easy peasy

Vocals

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  • Img looks good!
  • "but he and Visconti departed." → "but he and Visconti had departed." or anything else that specifies clearly
  • "he requested Visconti leave" → "Bowie requested Visconti leave"
  • Both done

Composition

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Music

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  • Img looks good!
  • Wikilink chord progression
  • "The song in mainly in the" → "The song is mainly in the"
  • "from the parallel minor, D minor, back" → "from the parallel D minor back"
  • Pipe percussion to Percussion instrument
  • "finds it a" → "finds the song a"
  • "are both dastardly," turning into a" → "are both dastardly", turning into a" per MOS:QUOTE
  • Add the release year of "I'm Waiting for the Man"
  • All done

Lyrics

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  • "of Berlin Bowie lived in" → "of Berlin that Bowie lived in"
  • "that separate the third verse," → "separating the third verse,"
  • Wikilink octave
  • "the sense that the narrator's love" → "the sense the narrator's love" to avoid overusage of that
  • "pleasure of being alive."" → "pleasure of being alive"." per MOS:QUOTE
  • "Likewise, Pegg contests that the song contains" → "Likewise, Pegg contests the song contains"
  • "the repeated announcement that" → "the repeated announcement of"
  • Add the release year of "The Bewlay Brothers" in brackets
  • "themes of his earlier works" → "themes of Bowie's earlier works"
  • "during World War II, also provided" → "during World War II, provided" to avoid using also twice in one sentence
  • Wikilink alcoholism
  • Pipe folk to Folk music
  • All done

Promotion and release

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  • Pipe Granada Television to ITV Granada
  • Wikilink 7" per MOS:LINK2SECT
  • Remove the comma after television special
  • "On 19 October," → "On 19 October 1977,"
  • "using a new backing track by Bowie," → "using a new backing track by the artist," to avoid using his name twice in one sentence
  • Pipe 12" single to Twelve-inch single
  • "it was sequenced as" → "the song was sequenced as" or something similar, as this is about the song not necessarily that version
  • Remove overly obvious wikilink on Paris
  • Pipe wet dream to Nocturnal emission
  • "reaching a low 126" → "reaching a low number 126"
  • Remove comma after (9)
  • Above done
  • The Best of David Bowie 1974/1979 is not sourced as including the song
  • Remove comma after Nothing Has Changed
  • Done

Critical reception

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  • "Several welcomed it as" → "Several welcomed the song as"
  • "also considered it a" → "also considered the song a"
  • "despite the dreariness of the album as" → "despite the dreariness of "Heroes" as"
  • All done

Retrospective appraisal

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  • Quote box looks good!
  • Wikilink rock and roll
  • "described it as" → "described "'Heroes'" as"
  • "despite that fact."" → "despite that fact"." per MOS:QUOTE
  • Above three done
  • [4][5][10][11][15][59] is too many refs together; move some around to fix this, probably a few to after "as a classic"
  • "wrote that it" → "wrote that the song"
  • "spirit over adversity."" → "spirit over adversity"."
  • "for the spirit."" → "for the spirit"."
  • "they mostly pan the" → "the biographers mostly pan the"
  • Above three done
  • [4][5][10][15][59] is too many refs together again; move some around like I suggested on the previous instance
  • Pipe Uncut to Uncut (magazine)
  • Add the release year of "Life on Mars?" in brackets
  • "He recognised it as a" → "He recognised the track as a"
  • Above three done

Accolades

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  • [72][73][74][75][76] is too many refs together again; obviously, move them to being after the publications to fix this
  • "the song has placed at" → "the song has been placed at"
  • A position of number 36 is listed for Q, not 34
  • "and later moved up to" → "later moving the song up to"
  • TIME should not be capitalised
  • The Radio X source gives a position of number 12, not number 24
  • Above five corrected
  • Are you sure Acclaimed Music is a reliable source?

Later chart success

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  • "It spent two weeks on" → "The song spent two weeks on"
  • [92][93] shouldn't these be the other way round to correspond with the countries?
  • Remove comma after the Netherlands chart position
  • All fixed

Live performances

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  • "the latter appear on that tour's" → "the latter appeared on its"
  • "made subsequently appearances during" → "made subsequent appearances during"
  • Pipe acoustic to Acoustic music
  • "Also sang at his" → "The song was also sang at his"
  • All done

Cover versions and tributes

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  • Img looks good!
  • Some of these covers still need significant info added; elsewise remove them per WP:SONGCOVER
  • Above done
  • The song is not sourced as being added to King Crimson's set in 2000

Usage in media

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  • The medal ceremonies part is not sourced
  • Remove excess space after The Parole Officer.
  • Oops, done
  • Make sure you add the years of any media appearances
  • Done
  • [5] should only be invoked at the end of the sentence
  • Pipe Praia do Futuro to Futuro Beach
  • Remove the release year in brackets for Jojo Rabbit because it is already introduced as five years later
  • Above three done

Personnel

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  • Done

Charts and certifications

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David Bowie version

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Weekly charts
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Certifications
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  • Good

The Wallflowers version

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  • Good

References

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  • Does note d really need the ref when that is invoked at the end of the actual sentence?
  • Done
  • Copyvio score looks slightly too high at 42.5%; cut down the amount of direct quoting from Radio X to fix this
  • The link won't load for me rn but looking at the source list, Radio X must have the same quotes as some of the other refs because I'm not finding a any direct quote from them in the article itself. Most quotes are from books so I'm assuming the website used the same ones? – zmbro (talk) (cont) 18:23, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fix MOS:QWQ issues with refs 18, 47 and 128
  • Done
  • Why do refs 20 and 41 cite Davidbowie.com while ref 33 cites David Bowie official website?
  • Made consistent
  • Pipe Record Research Inc to Joel Whitburn on ref 26
  • Wikilink AllMusic and author-link Stephen Thomas Erlewine on ref 34
  • Pipe Pitchfork to Pitchfork (website) on ref 40
  • Wikilink NME on ref 48
  • Italicise NME in the titles of refs 49 and 80
  • Above done
  • For refs 49, 68, 72, 74, 75, 76 and 77, are you sure rocklist.net is a reliable source? Also, magazine names should be italicised in titles too.
  • This was also brought up at Talk:This Year's Model/GA1. I don't have access to any of these lists (although I did find the NME one online so I corrected that) other than through this website, which is typically redirected from Acclaimed Music. I know some of them have the issues and dates which helps but since there's no online archives of these there's really no way for me to properly cite these other than here (other editors have told me the British Library houses Melody Maker but I live in the US so that doesn't help me rn). So basically, I only link them to rocklist.net so there's easier verification as I have no way of obtaining the actual magazines themselves. – zmbro (talk) (cont) 18:20, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove wikilink on AllMusic for ref 52
  • Done
  • Remove pipe on Pitchfork ref 53 and I'm not sure if this has MOS:QWQ issues or not with the speech marks being italicised
  • Done and no it doesn't; it's the album title
  • Ref 59 cites pp. 280-282, so couldn't this be used in place of ref 25?
  • Pipe Uncut to Uncut (magazine) on ref 65
  • Cite Digital Spy as publisher instead on ref 67
  • Remove wikilink on NME for ref 69
  • Above four done
  • I am unsure about the reliability of Acclaimed Music on ref 71 and cite it as publisher if kept
  • I've used it for other articles, including ones that became featured. It's basically similar to Rotten Tomatoes or Metacritic – it's just a aggregate website that compiles best-of lists. Super helpful – zmbro (talk) (cont) 14:56, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pipe Q to Q (magazine) on ref 75
  • Fix MOS:CAPS issues with ref 81; do the same for Time and pipe to Time (magazine)
  • Remove pipe on Pitchfork for ref 82 and italicised The Pitchfork 500
  • Wikilink National Review on ref 87
  • Official Charts → Official Charts Company on ref 89, citing as publisher instead
  • Cite Billboard Japan as work/website instead on ref 97 with the wikilink
  • Cite portuguesecharts.com as publisher instead on ref 100, removing Hung Medien
  • Cite Lescharts.com as publisher instead on ref 107
  • Remove author-link on Stephen Thomas Erlewine on ref 108
  • Above done
  • Remove pipe on Pitchfork for ref 116
  • WP:OVERLINK of Official Charts Company on ref 123
  • Cite MarketWatch as publisher instead on ref 127 with the wikilink
  • WP:OVERLINK of The New York Times on ref 131
  • Pipe Salon to Salon.com and fix MOS:QWQ issues on ref 133
  • Above done

Sources

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  • Both done

Final comments and verdict

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