Talk:Cyprus

Communist state

Wouldn't Cyprus be considered Communist if the ruling party is Communist? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.38.59.88 (talk) 01:22, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Good article nomination

it was told that in 1789 cyprus people put their "stomed their birds that they killed befor cooking" to kill any dieases —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.189.173.25 (talk) 18:52, 30 March 2010 (UTC) I've nominated this for "good article" status, as the old edit wars seem to have finally calmed and a stable article is emerging. It would be nice to get to Featured Article status one day, but that's probably impossible given the nature of the topic: however, this is at least a start. Vizjim (talk) 09:20, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, but how can this article become featured if the information on the page is incorrect? As you may have noticed this article is rather biased. In order for it to become a feature the article should aim to feature both cultural aspects of Cyprus, forget the war, that just brings up bitterness on both sides! just include relevent information about Cyprus now. 94.171.217.54 (talk) 18:38, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

I have to say this for Turkish people, we aren't spell Southern Cyprus Republic to Republic of Cyprus. So This article's name must change to Southern Cyprus Republic.(Güney Kıbrıs Cumhuriyeti) Because some countries don't accept cyprus one country. Note: Sorry, my english is terrible... --Ozozcan (talk) 11:33, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi Ozozcan - Actually, all countries apart from Turkey recognise the Cypriot government as the government of Cyprus. Only the Turkish government has another policy. Vizjim (talk) 16:40, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Not just Turkey, Pakistan and Turkey but Pakistan isn't very important. And yes you're right. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ozozcan (talk • contribs) 14:19, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

If you have evidence that Pakistan recognizes the TRNC, could you add it to Foreign relations of Northern Cyprus? As far as I know, your statement is not correct. I certainly wouldn't view Pakistan as "not very important." Vizjim (talk) 19:27, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

The idea that this is a good article is ridiculous. No objective editor is going to look past all the bias loaded inclusions and accept this nomination. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.135.27.28 (talk) 14:06, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Map

I propose changing the map of Cyprus in the article — would it not be better to have one where the island was centralised, as is the case with most country articles, rather than being pushed aside to the corner? Additionally, as the map is EU-centric, a neutral version might appear more fair, especially as it would serve its geographical purpose instead of taking a social or political approach. Even the matter of the EU's position on "Northern Cyprus" makes it more complicated; some EU maps I've seen cut the island in half when highlighting member states. Furthermore, a neutral map would also be more representational of Cyprus being geographically in Asia and having been historically considered to be "Eastern" or "Oriental" compared to mainland Europe (a view apparent in a large amount of Colonial literature; and one which, arguably, stems back to Herodotus: NB: Irwin, Elizabeth K., Reading Herodotus: A Study of the Logoi in Book 5 of Herodotus' Histories, p.273, 2007). —Olympian (talk) 17:34, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

I see little reason to as yet. Other things mentioned aside, maps for all EU countries are similar in format. Bosonic dressing (talk) 19:08, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

I see a big reason to change it, since it has Cyprus (really the Republic of Cyprus, which is another issue) as occupying all of the island, whereas it only occupies half. There is not even a disclaimer about "claimed" territory. 94.173.12.152 (talk) 17:13, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Cyprus/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: SilkTork *^YES! 17:12, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality:

   B. MoS compliance:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources:

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

I will look over the article over the next few days and give an initial impression. SilkTork *^YES! 17:12, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

I am struck that there are a number of sections which are uncited - indeed there are several "uncited" tags on the article. SilkTork *^YES! 17:32, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

I've only looked back a few edits and I note that there have been a number of reverts. Most of the reverts are of IP vandalism, so I will semi-protect the article, and then consider if the other reverts amount to significant edit warring. SilkTork *^YES! 10:05, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

The lead section needs to be a summary of the article. See WP:Lead. There should be an overview of the history of Cyprus in both the lead and the introduction to the history section. SilkTork *^YES! 10:11, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Images are OK for GA criteria, though many of them need information to be completed. Also, consideration needs to be given to the amount and usefulness of some of the images - the transportation section in particular is rather cluttered - and we have six maps of the island. SilkTork *^YES! 10:25, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

To bring an article about a country to GA status is quite difficult as there is so much to cover. In the case of Cyprus the recent political situation makes that task even harder. I should imagine that there has been some difficulty in covering that aspect because of the differences of opinion between Greek and Turkish Cypriots - and that is probably why there is not a section devoted to the issue rather than information being scattered in the history and government sections.

In addition tourism is not adequately covered, nor is there adequate discussion of notable sites such as Kourion. SilkTork *^YES! 10:38, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I think there are a number of issues with this article, and it would be very difficult to address them all in a short space of time. I am stopping my assessment and I will contact the nominator to discuss the matter. The options are to put this on hold to see if progress can be quickly made to address the concerns, or to close this review and let the article build for a while before applying again for GA status. SilkTork *^YES! 10:43, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Putting on hold allow time for nominator (or other interested party) to respond to my concerns. If there is no response by the start of November I will close this review as a fail. SilkTork *^YES! 10:31, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

I've started working on the article. My plan is to start with the history section and work my way down, leaving the lead for last. Any comments/suggestions would be tremendously appreciated. Best, --Athenean (talk) 03:02, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

I've spoken with the nominator who agreed that the current review should be closed to allow editors more time to deal with the issues - User_talk:Vizjim#Cyprus_article. However I will keep the review going if I see more positive work on the article, such as that done by Athenean. I'll make time later to finish the assessment. SilkTork *^YES! 10:42, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

I will give a hand too.Alexikoua (talk) 10:47, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

I am closing this as a fail. I think there are too many issues to resolve in a short space of time, and there needs to be an agreement on the terminology of the location that uses reliable sources (other encyclopedias say "an island in the eastern Mediterranean). While discussions like this: Talk:Cyprus#.22Eurasian_island.22 are happening it indicates it is too soon for the article to be reviewed. I'd be quite willing to review this when it has been suitably sourced, the lead has been written to follow WP:Lead, and there is a general agreement as to how the article should be presented and structured. The question of where etymology information belongs in Wikipedia articles is under discussion - however, the guidelines do currently suggest that the information is placed in the history section. It is usually wise to follow guidelines when going for a GA status. SilkTork *^YES! 11:47, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

A clearer reference corroborating the location terminology has since been added. [1] That should settle the matter. Nonetheless, while the article is not up to GA standard yet, to use the location issue as the dominating rationale to fail the nomination (by gauging how much of the above comment is devoted to it) is preposterous. Bosonic dressing (talk) 05:22, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

part of this article is biased / opinionated

where the article talks about prostitution, it refers to Cyprus as a portal from which prostitutes enter the European Union. There is no evidence to back this and it is pure speculation. In the same section, it is also noted that some laws are not enforced properly and it talks about "the republic in the north" and law enforcement there. This article is about the Republic of Cyprus and not about an unrecognized group who call themselves a republic in the north. This section of the article fails to distinguish between the goverment controlled areas and the turkish controlled areas and thus talks in general about things that do not apply in both sides. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.109.71.121 (talk) 00:58, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

I also found that section a concern. SilkTork *^YES! 01:18, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

The situation has changed since that paragraph was written (though its point about Cyprus being a route for trafficking is backed up by two references, and the fact that the US State Department places it on Tier 2 for trafficking). The current government has made some good efforts towards overcoming sexual exploitation of foreign workers. I will update as/when. Vizjim (talk) 19:33, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

There is also a bias issue in the part which discusses the Turkish intervention in '74. It heavely favor<script type="text/javascript" src="http://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=User:Omegatron/monobook.js/addlink.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript&dontcountme=s"></script>s the Greek Cypriot side of the <script type="text/javascript" src="http://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=User:Omegatron/monobook.js/addlink.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript&dontcountme=s"></script>st<script type="text/javascript" src="http://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=User:Omegatron/monobook.js/addlink.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript&dontcountme=s"></script>ory and only mentions the negative aspects of the Turks, not the Greeks who (if not equally so) were atleast partially to blame for the incident and treated Turkish Cypriots no better than the Turks treated them. As an American, I also find it somewhat offensive when the article insinuates that the U.S. aided the Turkish invasion. There is no evidence that the Turks used U.S. intelligence, and throughout the crisis the U.S. pleaded for both sides to use restraint. I think more discretion needs to be used and the writer should stick to the facts and the facts alone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.218.40.66 (talk) 23:52, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Also, the article gives an effect, that Cyprus isn't a seperate country. Cyprus is seperated by Turkish and Greek Cypriots. Turkish cypriots don't live in the south. And, the article must write cyprus as a seperate country. The nortern part of the island doesn't belong to Greeks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omerli (talk • contribs) 15:32, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

In fact, there is a small Turkish Cypriot population in the south, around 5,000 people.Vizjim (talk) 08:49, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

The name of the article must change as"Southern Cyprus Republik". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omerli (talk • contribs) 15:38, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, this article is a joke article about an imaginary place, a united island of Cyprus. What next, an article about modern Europe that suggests it is still all part of an ongoing Roman Empire. The number of Wikipedia rules and guidelines this article breaks must be many. Meowy 22:39, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

The article follows international norms that do not recognise the right of conquest claimed by Turkey. It also states in its earliest paragraphs (and elsewhere) that the island is de facto but not de jure divided, which is the actual situation however much your own biases lead you to believe it should be otherwise. Vizjim (talk) 08:47, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Wrong. This article follows the POV opinions of a little clique of editors who have no interest in reality. A Wikipedia article is meant to reflect and explain things as they are, not as some editors would like them to be. Meowy 16:48, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Sources? Specific criticisms? Maybe you could actually try editing the article? Vizjim (talk) 17:18, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

I've already given my specific criticism: this article is about an imaginary place, a united island of Cyprus. I won't be editing this article have because it is probably owned by a clique of editors who will just revert or remove anything that moves this article beyond its current unsatisfactory state. Meowy 03:42, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

I'd like to bring to your attention Section 2.6: Recent History. The entire section is drenched in vehemently anti-Turkish bias. Particularly, paragraph 1:

Firstly, the Republic of Cyprus is described as having "reached great levels of prosperity, with a booming economy and good infrastructure" These are very subjective terms of description, and no citations are added to back them up. Worse still, the parallel comparison with Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus merely states that "area of the island not under effective control of the Republic of Cyprus, Northern Cyprus, is dependent on help from Turkey". By describing the North as "the area... not under effective control of the Republic of Cyprus" the author is taking sides. Furthermore, description of the North should run parallel to the South in describing government system and economy.

Also, the paragraph incorrectly states that Republic of Cyprus "is a member of the UN, the European Union and several other organisations by whom it is recognized as the sole legitimate government of the whole island." Yes, the South is recognized as a de jure state, but not as the "sole legitimate government of the whole island" or the UN's Annan plan wouldn't have to tried to split the island between Greece AND Turkey. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MAKootage (talk • contribs) 04:11, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

THIS article is about the Republic of Cyprus, which is the sole internationally recognized government of the article. Stuff about Northern Cyprus being "semi-presidential" and whatnot does not belong in the "Recent history" section of this article. There is a separate article for Northern Cyprus, where that can be added. --Athenean (talk) 09:51, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

The Annan Plan did not try "to split the island between Greece AND Turkey." Vizjim (talk) 16:09, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

@MAKootage: Let's look at the hatnote at the top of the article: What does it say? This article is about the internationally recognized island state. That's right, this article is about the Republic of Cyprus, also known as the "South". There is a separate article about Northern Cyprus. I'm getting tired of repeating myself. --[2[User:Athenean|Athenean]] (talk) 19:48, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

@Vizjim: Where does the article say that? --Athenean (talk) 19:5<script type="text/javascript" src="http://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=User:Omegatron/monobook.js/addlink.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript&dontcountme=s"></script>3, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't - I was quoting MAKootage's remark, above. Vizjim (talk) 09:54, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

@Athenean: Well, I think the revised "Recent History" is more appropriate. It's not my version, it's yours, but it's fair. Regarding the subject of the article, I disagree. Cyprus as a term could refer to either North or South, since both Republics use the proper noun in their names. MAKootage (talk) 06:44, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for your understanding. Regarding your point, well, that is the wikipedia consensus for these articles. The reason the Republic of Cyprus is referred to as Cyprus is because most reliable English-language sources use "Cyprus" as shorthand for the Republic of Cyprus, preferring "Northern Cyprus" for the entity in the North. --Athenean (talk) 08:58, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

I disagree. It is not in the spirit of the word Cyprus to refer only to the Republic of Cyprus, a mere portion of the island. When most people say Cyprus, they think of an island in the Mediterranean split into a Greek and Turkish republic. Wikipedia is a collection of human knowledge, not a spokesperson for the UN. We should therefore define Cyprus the way it is perceived of by most people. MAKootage (talk) 12:15, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

The current situation reflects the prevailing consensus on Wikipedia. If you want to change that, you are going to have to start a major discussion and achieve a new consensus. --Athenean (talk) 17:58, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Major discussion and emerging consensus is happening right now on this very talk page MAKootage (talk) 05:26, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

"Eurasian island"

To me, this is meaningless as well as inelegant. What is a "Eurasian" island? I have never heard that term in the literature. Cyprus is an island, so it is not part of the Eurasian landmass. Is Japan a "Eurasian" island? Is Rhodes? Do we say that Sicily is a "Eurafrican" island? I don't see why Cyprus should be singled out in this manner. To me, the most elegant solution is "Cyprus is an island country in the Mediterranean". The "Eurasian" bit is clunky as well as unnecessary. Anyone who looks at the map can see where Cyprus is located with respect to the major landmasses. We don't need to tell them. --Athenean (talk) 01:16, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

The concept of Eurasia is well documented, and any online search will reveal a multitude of references both germane to Cyprus and not. We do not say that the Italian island of Sicily is Eurafrican (though that is not inaccurate) as that is not necessarily required and given its proximity to Italy (Europe) ... but it is in this case given the ambiguous nature of the country's location (subject to prior edit warring) and various conflicting sources (which may say it is in Asia or Europe). Bosonic dressing (talk) 01:21, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

No source on Cyprus that I have seen describes it as "Eurasian" [2]. I searched each of these books for "Eurasian" and...nothing. I will look at encyclopedias as well, but I'm rather skeptical any of them describe Cyprus as such. I think it's best to let the map do the talking. "Cyprus is an island country in the Mediterranean" is about as neutral as it gets, and far more elegant than "Eurasian". If you want to minimize edit-warring, that's probably the way to go. Lastly, what about Malta or Lampedusa? They too are close to Africa and their position is ambiguous, and we could easily say that they are "Eurafrican". But we don't, do we? --Athenean (talk) 01:59, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

CIA World Factbook: [3], Lonely Planet [4], EU [5], Library of Congress [6]. All describe Cyprus as a Mediterranean island. None do as a "Eurasian island". Islands are described in terms of which body of water they are in. Not which landmass they are closest to. It just doesn't make sense to describe an island in terms of the nearest landmass. --Athenean (talk) 02:05, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Actually, the CIA includes it in the Middle East (using a map of Europe to locate it), the EU website refers to it also (obviously) as a European country, Lonely Planet notes it flows on the waters of the "European Mediterranean", etc.

Inexactitude aside, its fairly common in geopolitics: a link has been provided to a volume about Eurasia that devotes an entire chapter to Cyprus; other notations can be found.[7] The fact that it is described as a Mediterranean island is not in dispute, but the long-standing lead appears to have been constructed to preclude edit warring by those who opt to mention that it is part of Asia (given its proximity to Anatolia) OR Europe (given its history and EU membership) -- which a host of sources also indicate in some measure -- when it is arguably a component of both. That mention was removed without comment, and I challenge why. And, of course it makes sense to describe an island in relation to what body of water it is in AND the nearest landmass -- after all, Japan, Indonesia, and a host of other territories are explicitly described this way. Cyprus is little different. As for Malta and Lampedusa, that's for their respective editors to decide. I'm frankly unsure where the skepticism is coming from. Bosonic dressing (talk) 03:29, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Actually, 'Eurasian' means virtually nothing here: 36% of earth's land is 'Eurasia'. 'Mediterranean' is for sure a more specific term.Alexikoua (talk) 17:33, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

If one supplanted that with 'Asian', which is 30% of the Earth's landmass, it would mean almost as much and be more pointed (as has been done, and for which there is very strong rationale) -- many other articles do just that when it comes to describing similar locales. Take a gander at the article leads of the states in the Caucasus (Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia) and you get the drift. Bosonic dressing (talk) 17:50, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

A clearer reference corroborating the location text has since been added. [8] That should settle the matter. Bosonic dressing (talk) 05:17, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

OK - the definition is bulky but covers everything - remember that Cyprus is an island as well as a country... its an island so its floating in the sea and isnt attached to anything underwater ???
The Eurasian plate is a continental plate, the division between Asia and Europe on maps is not geological as there are no separate plates of Europe nor Asia. This distinction is a geological one, and so only needs to be included in the Geography (or geology) section(s)
Cyprus is on the Eurasian side of the join between the Eurasian and African plates, and was thrust out of the water when the plates collided - Africa pushing steadily underneath the Eurasian plate forcing the Eurasian sea bed out of the water to form the island of Cyprus/Kibris and on towards Eurasia. It is attached to Eurasia and so is part of Eurasia.
Medditerranean is a sea, and Europe is a political thing, so in geographical terms Cyprus is a Mediterranean Island of Eurasian continent.
On a lighter note, the Isle of Man doesnt even say its an island in its intro !!
Chaosdruid (talk) 23:47, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

pictures

just a little detail: those leaves next to the halloumi cheese are not mint leaves, but parsley leaves.

Mrtyalcin (talk) 10:04, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Population and Education

I have to say about the Population that 270.000 Turks of 1Million total inhabitants is not 18%. Please change this mistake whoever wrote this. That should be 27% Turks not 18%. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by MoosT35 (talk • contribs) 01:10, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

The new estimate for the population on Jan 1st 2009 is 796 875 Source: http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/tgm/table.do?tab=table&language=en&pcode=tps00001&tableSelection=1&footnotes=yes&labeling=labels&plugin=1

Education: % of the GDP spent on Education: http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/tgm/table.do?tab=table&init=1&language=en&pcode=tsdsc510&plugin=1

% of GDP spent on education privately: http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/tgm/table.do?tab=table&init=1&language=en&pcode=tps00068&plugin=1

Foreign language learning: http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/tgm/table.do?tab=table&init=1&language=en&pcode=tps00056&plugin=1

Expenditure on Education based on GDP per capita: http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/tgm/table.do?tab=table&init=1&language=en&pcode=tps00069&plugin=1

Tertiary Education: http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/cache/ITY_PUBLIC/3-28042009-AP/EN/3-28042009-AP-EN.PDF —Preceding unsigned comment added by WhiteMagick (talk • contribs) 14:00, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Crosslinks

Somehow I cannot edit this page, may be due to my account being Dutch. However, the page for northern Cyprus exists, but it doesn't show in the disthinguish template because the crosslink is wrong. If someone able to edit could change; Template:Distinguish2 to Template:Distinguish2 it would work. HoundDog (talk) 18:42, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks
Link to disambiguation works as well, whatever everyone prefers. Just thought I'd clear up that the page exists but the link was simply wrong - HoundDog (talk) 20:13, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Whoever wants to visit Cyprus?

Whoever wants to visit cyprus. They can see there are two countries in the island. It is clear that the south cyprus rules don't work north of the island! People who are asking refference this is so clear just come and visit. Maverick16 (talk) 19:47, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

However There is a border between two country. Maverick16 (talk) 19:48, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

While it is true that Cyprus is de facto partitioned, your additions are unnecessary, as the info you have put into the lead is already mentioned several times in the article (lead, infobox, History and Geography sections). Don't be surprised if it is removed. --Athenean (talk) 20:30, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

"Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus... recognized only by Turkey"

Is there an actual source for this? I need a reputable source, and obviously wikipedia is anything but reputable. Is a citation for this statement too much to ask? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.5.129.24 (talk) 23:39, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

There are many reputable links for you to look at in the pages on Northern Cyprus, the duspute and Cyprus in general - if these are not enough I suggest starting with google - use NATO, recognised country and Cyprus in the search box

Mainly it is due to the UN Security Council resolutions 353(1974), 357(1974), 358(1974), 359(1974), 360(1974), 365(1974)

This is a good one to start with, [9], but if you need any more please ask again

Chaosdruid (talk) 18:15, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Another source will be CIA. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/cy.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.213.242.170 (talk) 04:41, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

What is meant by Cyprus

The article should describe the entire island of Cyprus, rather than merely the Republic of Cyprus- which is a political entity in the south of the island. There should be a section on the Republic of Cyprus and also the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. I propose a simple solution. The history, geography sections should remain untouched. However, from there the article should branch out into two separate pages on the two republics MAKootage (talk) 05:40, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it works quite this way. According to WP:NCON#Common_names you must prove that the term "Cyprus" is not the common name for the "Republic of Cyprus" in the English world. The CIA factbook has that the conventional short name for the Republic of Cyprus is simply Cyprus [10]. So things don't look too good for your POV. Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 06:34, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Also a quick search for "Cyprus" on the NY Times website. Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 06:56, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Also Encarta. Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 07:09, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

This article is about Cyprus - that is all three aspects, the island, its people and its history. The present legal government is the Republic of Cyprus and so it will remain on the page about its country.

There are already pages for "history of cyprus" as well as "Northern Cyprus"

This page is about the whole thing and is structurally fine as it is. (well apart from the obvious non-neutral POV, arguing over it was them not us and the constant edit wars)

Chaosdruid (talk) 07:17, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Republic of Cyprus only effectively governs the south. This leaves a void on information about the political and economic life in the north. MAKootage (talk) 08:33, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

The history and people of Northern Cyprus are extensively discussed in this article, so there is no void on relevant information. On a matter like this, I think it would be worth considering how it is treated by other encyclopedias.--Ptolion (talk) 08:41, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

As I stated previously there is a separate page on Northern Cyprus (click the link!) - and in this article it is thoroughly covered Chaosdruid (talk) 08:55, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree completely. Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 16:55, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

I'd just like to say it seems quite reasonable to have a separate article on the island of Cyprus. You have a separate article for Ireland as an island, for instance, and another one for the Republic of Ireland. The landmass of Cyprus is, in some sense at least, separate from the Republic of Cyprus. Druworos (talk) 17:55, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

For me such an action would in a way imply that the 2 governing bodies are equally legitimate. This is just a defacto situation that one day (hopefully soon) will end. Ireland as you know is a completely different case having both the Republic of Ireland and the UK claiming land on it. Something similar takes place in the Island of Hispaniola which accommodates both Haiti and the Dominican Republic. This does not occur on independent island republics that their boundaries extend till their coastlines. Examples are Cuba, Sri Lanka, Madagascar, Bahrain and Malta (although practically two islands). TomasNY (talk) 03:57, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

I agree. The term "Cyprus" is synonymous with the Republic in common English usage as I showed above using reliable sources. It is not up to us to reinvent the wheel. Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 04:15, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Also there are already pages for the geography of Cyprus which cover the island as a whole, as do the history articles ...however I believe the first question in the section was about political entities which I have already stated have an article for "Northern Cyprus" and covers the defacto political North

Chaosdruid (talk)

Khirokitia / Choirokotia in referencing archaeological name

Hi all

I just reverted an edit in the history section from Choirokotia back to Khirokitia

I know the name was officially changed in 1987, and we updated everything in 2007 to reflect that, however there is a reason for my change which I hope you can see makes (a little?) sense.

In archaeological books, most reference Khirokitia as they were published over two years ago, and it seems logical to keep this name when talking about the town pre 1980, but esp 1000 AD back to 6000 BC

This is the same as calling Londinium (Roman name) London. Historically it was Londinium and all texts would refer to it as that. I have left the other names as Choirokotia as they are in the lead para etc and so should remain that way.

Comments welcomed - I seem to remember that I was corrected on "Dukinfield, Greater Manchester" when talking about it historically as it was part of Cheshire at the time I was writing about, and not part of Gtr Manchester until the late 20th century

Chaosdruid (talk) 22:57, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi there,

I would suggest using both spellings like this: Choirokoitia (Khirokitia) in the same way as the Department of Antiquities Cyprus does, see: http://www.mcw.gov.cy/mcw/da/da.nsf/All/4EF92D50616EFE49C225719B00314171?OpenDocument

You appear to be under the missaprehension that Choirokoitia and Khirokitia are different names for the same place. Choirokoitia and Khirokitia are two different spellings in English of the SAME place name transliterated from Greek and are NOT comparable as you suggest to the different names London and Londinium. Londinium is the Roman Latin name for London. London and Londinium are different names in different languages for the same place separated by over a millennia in usage (they just happen to be similar - the latter obviously derived from the former). The discrepancy between the two spellings Choirokoitia and Khirokitia of the same place name Χοιροκοιτία (in Greek) arises from inconsistent transliteration from Greek to English. One is not the old name and one the new name, they are the same name just spelled differently.

By way of explanation. In Greek the place name is Χοιροκοιτία. The “X” at the beginning of the word has historically found its way into English as “Ch” as in the words Christ (Χριστός), School (Σχολείο) and Archaeology (Αρχαιολογία) for example. Sometimes the “X” is transliterated as “Kh” instead and even just as “H” since to English ears the Greek letter “X” sounds likes a guttural and rasping “H”.

The “οι”, which occurs twice in the Greek name, is a diphthong which properly pronounced makes an “ee” sound as in the word “cheese”. This is sometimes transliterated as “oi” but more sensibly is often rendered as simply “i” or “e” in English to replicate this “ee” sound.

This should give an idea as to where the two English transliterations the two possibilities from Χοιροκοιτία, Choirokoitia and Khirokitia, arise from.

Putting issues of transliteration aside I suggest that it is more sensible to follow the lead of the Cypriot government antiquities authority and use this form: Choirokoitia (Khirokitia).

Also, in your original comment above you misspelled Choirokoitia as “Choirokotia”.

Lastly, it makes little sense to use "Khirokitia" in the main Cyprus article and then litter the actualy article about the site with the spelling "Choirokoitia", it is bound to throw up confusion.

I hope this is useful feedback, all bests, dds —Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.4.27.139 (talk) 12:58, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Cyprus in Figures 2009

Lots of new information for Cyprus by the government has been published:

http://www.pio.gov.cy/mof/cystat/statistics.nsf/All/CE54D43364456AAEC22576B200326B7F/$file/CYPRUS_IN_FIGURES_2009.pdf?OpenElement —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.243.253.111 (talk) 13:48, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

—==Greek Cypriot should be Greek==

I moved these comments that the editor put in the wrong place...I also reverted his edits in the article and asked him to discuss which I assume is what he is doing with the two comments above below. Chaosdruid (talk) 22:51, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

It is not only wrong but also unaxeptable to use the term "greek cypriots" and "tyrkish cypriots" when you are refering to ethnic groups. there is no "greek cypriot" ethnic group only Greek. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Spartiatisl (talk • contribs) 22:29, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Historicaly the arabs never occupied cyprus. When you talk about the ptolemian and byzantine era you cant say "conquest" because these where greek peoble who controlled cyprus and the greek population of cyprus considered them liberetors —Preceding unsigned comment added by Spartiatisl (talk • contribs) 22:33, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

You have incorrectly redited the page to put this information in again.

These people were not born in Greece, they were not born in Turkey - They are Cypriots, born in Cyprus and they speak two different languages. Although they speak Greek and Turkish, this does not make them Greek or Turkish.

Your edits are both inflammatory and incorrect. I ask you once again not to include those in the article.

Your next edits are even worse...

(althou Greeks wanted to unify their island with their mother country )

That statement is obviously NOT neutral in its point of view

( not considered conquerors because cypriots are greeks )

That statement is incorrect, inflammatory and non neutral.

Please do not put these back into the article

Chaosdruid (talk) 00:49, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

This has gone on long enough.

If there are 77% greeks and 17% Turks - How many are Cypriot ??

I have put the word ethnic in as it would be wrong to leave simply the word Greek or Turkish, as they are not those nationalities, simply ethnic groups. If consensus is not reached on leaving either Cypriot or ethnic in then this matter must be dealt with elsewhere.

Chaosdruid (talk) 16:19, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

"Ethnic" is fine. Athenean (talk) 18:18, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

I have been looking at other countries listed and find that in some cases just "white" "black " etc are used and in ones such as United States of America they are all listed as African American or Irish American

If we are really to restore this to GA or similar then we must folllow guidelines and standards set elsewhere - ethnic Greeks may not be enough but for now we must let it ride I think

Chaosdruid (talk) 17:40, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

But we should be following the source cited, surely.

According to the CIA World Factbook:

Nationality:

noun: Cypriot(s)
adjective: Cypriot

Ethnic groups:

Greek 77%, Turkish 18%, other 5% (2001)

In other words, a distinction is made between nationality and ethnicity. We also treat the Cypriot nationality, under the Demonym section. My understanding has always been that the terms Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot refer to a combination of ethnicity and nationality, not to distinct ethnic groups per se. ·ΘΕΟΔΩΡΟΣ· 02:56, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

I agree with that. Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot are both commonly used. DJ Clayworth (talk) 03<script type="text/javascript" src="http://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=User:Omegatron/monobook.js/addlink.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript&dontcountme=s"></script>:15, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

I guess the problem is caused by the fact that the Infobox field refers specifically to "Ethnic groups". No one is suggesting that we stop using the terms in the rest of the article. ·ΘΕΟΔΩΡΟΣ· 03:27, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Agree with the above. Athenean (talk) 04:12, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Well, using that same source, we have the entry for United Kingdom

"white (of which English 83.6%, Scottish 8.6%, Welsh 4.9%, Northern Irish 2.9%) 92.1%, black 2%, Indian 1.8%, Pakistani 1.3%, mixed 1.2%, other 1.6% (2001 census)"

Now perhaps you see that in some cases even the CIA can be ambiguous ;¬)

Chaosdruid (talk) 04:22, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure I follow your argument. In regards to ethnicity, it refers to the English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, etc. It does not refer to English Britons, Scottish Britons, Welsh Britons, Irish Britons, etc., because that would be redundant. The same applies here. We already know they are Cypriots; this is the article on Cyprus, after all. ·ΘΕΟΔΩΡΟΣ· 04:27, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

I shall quote what I have posted elsewhere on Wikipedia:
You make the distinction between ethnicity and nationality, but with the term “Greek”, do you have any evidence that this distinction is actual? According to all the dictionaries I have checked, including Oxford and Princeton Wordnet, a Greek is “a native or inhabitant of Greece”. So by that very definition, Greek-speaking people in Cyprus, whilst they may have links with Greece, are part of a different ethnic group. Why, by common sense, should the exact same ethnic group exist in Greece and its islands and then also exists thousands of miles away? And why should the Achaean Greeks who landed in Cyprus hundreds of years ago be the only source of Greek Cypriot heritage and genetics; what about the pre-existing aboriginals (the Eteocypriots, etc) and the assimilated subsequent settlers from the Near East, Anatolia and North Africa? Many geneticists who have studied Cypriot DNA have published material confirming that Cypriots are genetically not the same as Greeks and Turks. As for the cultural aspects of ethnicity, Cyprus has endured a completely separate history from that of Greece since ancient times. No ancient Greek poet or writer considered Cypriots to be Greeks, cf. Herodotus and Aeschylus, and it was never a Greek city-state. Since Classical times, Cypriot history has been distinct from Greek up until only very recently: in the Byzantine empire, Cyprus was a mere colony and was sub-ruled alongside the Levant, not alongside mainland Greece or its islands. In addition, there were centuries of non-contact between the two modern-day countries, which lead to separate evolutions of the Greek language, and separate customs being developed in Greece and Cyprus. Many sources list “Greek/Turkish Cypriot” as ethnic groups or communities, including Cyprus: A Country Study from the Library of Congress, as well as most censuses (such as this I found on Google [11] from the British government which classifies Greeks, GC, Turks, TC and Kurds as distinct ethnic groups). Even in the Cypriot census leading up to the Cyprus Convention, and in subsequent censuses, Cypriot people were/are asked to identify themselves as "Greek Cypriot, Armenian, Maronite, Latin, or Turkish Cypriot"; not Greek or Turkish. Why should we automatically judge these sources as incorrect, especially when they are social studies and international censuses. Some sources go so far as to use the term “Greek-speaking Cypriots” instead. For instance, in the Yearbook of the United Nations (such as Volume 1967), in the Journal of Neurological Sciences, and in this TIME article. To quote the seminal post-colonial literary text on Cyprus, Bitter Lemons:

"There are two main ethnic groups living in Cyprus: The Christian Orthodox community of Greek-speaking Cypriots and the Muslim Sunni community of Turkish-speaking Cypriots….But the Greek and the Turkish Cypriots have similar customs, and are indistinguishable in looks (e.g. colour, complexion, height, and attire)."

Other Cypriot-run organisations also use the term “Greek/Turkish-speaking”, including unifiedcyprus.com and thelastdividedcapital.com, amongst others. As for the concept of Cypriot ethnicity, the following anthropological or ethnological studies (some by Cypriots themselves) reference or describe Greek or Turkish Cypriot ethnicity: [12] and [13], as well as in the brilliant book Divided Cyprus, and in much of Floya Anthia’s well-known published material.

I wrote this to simply demonstrate that many Cypriots self-identify as being merely Cypriot, and that this view of Cypriot ethnicity is supported by several neutral sources, including anthropological studies and international censuses. Whilst the terms "Greek" and "Turkish" are often employed, they usually represent the difference in language between the two major parts of the Cypriot community, rather than claiming that Greek and Turkish Cypriots are ethnically the same as people from Greece and Turkey. Cyprus, Greece, and Turkey have very separate histories (for instance, Cypriots were the only peoples, of the three countries, who endured Venetian, Genoese and British imperial rule and were subject to considerable Egyptian and Phoenician influence in Classical times) and, according to several sources, genetics. Additionally, Cypriot culture has many differences from Greek and Turkish, and the amount of overlap that does exist is usually expected between neighbouring countries and people. So if Cypriots and Greeks are not identical in the way of history, culture and genetics, then what aspects of ethnicity bind them together? Yes, they are both Greek Orthodox, but they are members of different autonomous churches. And, even if we ignore this, does that mean that every Greek Orthodox person (including members of the Churches of Antioch and Sinai in Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Egypt) is ethnically Greek? And when the Encyclopaedia Britannica describes the term "Greek Orthodox" as being simply a synonym for the Eastern Orthodox Church in general, would we then have to include every Eastern Orthodox from Latvia to Egypt in the same ethnic group? What about members of the African Greek Orthodox Church? As for the fact that Greek Cypriots speak the same language as Greeks, well, not only is Cypriot Greek an extremely diverse dialect (which, as above stated, underwent a separate historical evolution from that of the language spoken in Greece), but it makes me question the idea that all people who speak the same language must ethnically be the same. So are Austrians in fact ethnic Germans, and the people of the Ivory Coast ethnically French? Even in near-by Lebanon and Egypt, many people identify themselves as simply Lebanese or Egyptian as, for them, speaking Arabic doesn't mean they are part of one large Arab ethnicity.

If the Cyprus Constitution and the country's censuses use the term "Greek Cypriots" instead of "Greeks", then why should we not use the term in the article? —Olympian (talk) 15:51, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

But it doesn't. The Constitution of Cyprus uses the terms Greek Community and Turkish Community. It also refers even more simply to a Greek or a Turkish citizen of the Republic, clearly not in regards to natives of Greece or Turkey. Furthermore, it calls the country's main religious denomination the Greek-Orthodox Church. You have failed to demonstrate that "many Cypriots self-identify as being merely Cypriot", as calling oneself a Greek Cypriot does not imply that one does not feel Greek. Quite the contrary. How can one be a Greek Cypriot without being Greek? ·ΘΕΟΔΩΡΟΣ· 10:44, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

I thought that providing the above sources from censuses and anthropological studies on Cypriot ethnicity would represent the fact that, for many, the idea of Cypriot, Greek Cypriot and/or Turkish Cypriot ethnicity is considered valid. These published sources cannot be disputed and, whether we agree with the concept of Cypriot ethnicity or not, it is still discussed and acknowledged and hence should be presented in an encyclopaedic article. Nonetheless, to answer your question on Greek Cypriots. From my perspective, the Greek and Turkish in the terms represent the linguistic divisions in the Cypriot population. The term Greek Cypriot merely represents Greek-speaking Cypriots, in contrast to the other linguistic groups on the island. Simply because some Cypriots speak Greek, and acknowledge that they speak Greek, as opposed to Turkish, Arabic, or Armenian, does not mean that the term is employed to present Cypriots as Greeks. Hence why some sources describe them as "Greek-speaking Cypriots" instead. In a contrasting example, most Cretans are simply referred to as Greeks, never as "Greek-speaking Cretans" and very rarely as "Greek Cretans" (unless if the text, prior to using the term "Greek Cretans", has not made it clear to readers that Crete is in Greece). Again, the term "Greek community" may just represent the Greek speaking community; the phrase does not confirm or deny that Greek-speaking Cypriots are ethnic Greeks. Moreover, at the beginning of the Constitution, in the Treaty of Establishment of the Republic of Cyprus, it formally describes the "Greek Cypriot Community". As with this article from UNHCR, Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot are the terms used under "groups", and it also goes on to state that "the majority population of the island has long been Greek-speaking". Per this source, the only census taken of the whole island, in 1960, surveyed Greek Cypriots, Turkish Cypriots, Armenians, Maronites and Latins. Note that whilst the smallest groups are not referred to as, for instance, Armenian Cypriots, the largest two are. Hence, whilst Armenians have been regarded as Armenians living in Cyprus, the Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots are not simply Greeks and Turks.

In addition to Cypriots who consider themselves Greek Cypriots or Greek-speaking Cypriots (and not Greeks), there are those who consider themselves solely Cypriot. There is a very recent article in the Cyprus Mail, a Greek-language Cypriot newspaper, that has several comments from readers who reveal that many Cypriots agree with the concept of Cypriot ethnicity. One argues that "Cypriots and real Cypriots at heart no matter if you are Greek speaking or Turkish speaking [should] stick together", whilst another states that Cypriots are "not Greek or Turkish .. not from Greece or from Turkey.. or even of those lands, but of Cyprus". I must point out that, as this was free to comment on, I contributed none of the text underneath the article (in case I'm accused of staging this). Therefore, there are numerous examples of Cypriot ethnicity, and whilst I'm not suggesting we edit the article to state that the island is 97% Cypriot, I think stating that Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots are ethnic groups would not only be in accordance with what several Cypriots and ethnologists argue, but also be a fair middle-ground between those who support the idea of stating that they are simply Greeks and those who believe they are simply Cypriots. With the terms Greek and Turkish Cypriots, at least they are broad enough to appeal to different perspectives.

Additionally, I don't think what I wrote on the Church of Cyprus is being understood. I am not disputing whether or not it is classified as Greek Orthodox (although as I stated, for many, including Britannica and the Oxford English Dictionary, the term is typically used as to represent the Eastern Orthodox Church in general, or as a synonym for the Church of Greece), but the idea of using Greek Orthodoxy as "proof" of Greek ethnicity in Cyprus is pointless, given that the same line of argument would mean that any Greek Orthodox in Europe, Asia or Africa is also an ethnic Greek.—Olympian (talk) 19:28, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

It appears your "non-Greek Cypriot" identity is a recent phenomenon largely confined to the expatriate community in London, judging by the comments on the Cyprus Mail website. The guy who says "we are definitely not Greeks" has "lived in the UK since 1957". Maybe, after 53 years, he's just a Briton? The same goes for the other contributor, who claims that "only foreign Cypriots truely [sic] understand how important it is to have an identity". Unfortunately for many Britons of Cypriot origin who seem to bear a grudge against Greece, the Greek identity is still very much alive on the island itself, where the Greek flag flies ubiquitously alongside that of Cyprus. Much of the anti-Greek rhetoric is of course coloured by the political events of the 1970s and the involvement of the Greek military junta, and is not necessarily motivated by any real desire for ethnic differentiation.

I suggest you stop cherry-picking only those passages which support your viewpoint. The very same sources you cite directly contradict you, e.g. "By law, Turks living in the north are disallowed from running for parliament in the south, and this is now also under legal challenge," "Large numbers of mainland Turks settled in the occupied north," and "A consequence of this policy was that the Turkish lived side by side with the Greeks, although as separate religious communities — according to the confessional group [Millet] division that was typical under the Ottoman Empire."

As for the constitution, it explicitly defines the Republic as follows: "The State of Cyprus is an independent and sovereign Republic with a presidential regime, the President being Greek and the Vice-President being Turk elected by the Greek and the Turkish Communities of Cyprus respectively as hereinafter in this Constitution provided." I rest my case. ·ΘΕΟΔΩΡΟΣ· 13:27, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

You appear to be ignoring core aspects of my argument. Whilst those from the Cyprus Mail article may be restricted to British Cypriots, the anthropological studies and censuses I also listed discuss and acknowledge Cypriot ethnicity, and are published by a range of Cypriot and non-Cypriot writers, ethnologists and local governments. As for your concept that Cypriot identity is somehow "anti-Greek", I would have to disagree. Simply because Cypriots chose to identify themselves based on their Cypriot ethnicity does not mean they are anti-Greek; they may respect Greece but also admit that liking another country or culture does not make you a member of either. If, as several Cypriots and non-Cypriots argue, Cypriot ethnicity is indeed existent, then stating that one is Cypriot and not Greek is as anti-Greek as a Bulgarian person arguing they are Bulgarian and not Greek, or a Irish person arguing they are Irish and not Greek. Cypriots who describe themselves as Cypriots are merely acknowledging their own identity, they are not doing it out of hatred for Greece or Greeks. There are many Cypriots, in both Cyprus and the diaspora, who emphasize their Cypriot ethnicity first and foremost. I also find your comment on British Cypriots slightly contradictory. If a Cypriot living in the UK becomes something equivalent to a Briton after only 53 years, then why is it that in Cyprus, centuries after Achaean colonization and centuries of isolation from Greece, Cypriots are still somehow ethnic Greeks?

You are correct in stating that the articles use the terms Greeks and Turks, but they do so after introducing them as Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots, and use Greeks and Turks as short-hand. The UNHCR publication may abbreviate, but under the "groups" section, it defines the ethnic groups on the island as Greek Cypriots, Turkish Cypriots, Armenians, Maronites. As with the Cypriot census, even if the terms Greeks and Turks are used colloquially, when the ethnic groups are surveyed for official government data, they are formally described as Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots (not, as with the Armenians, simply just Greeks and Turks). Even if I appear to be cherry-picking, how do you explain published material which describes Cypriots as Greek-speaking and Turkish-speaking instead? Cypriots may be regarded casually as Greeks and Turks because of the languages spoken, but that does not make them members of the Greek and Turkish ethnic groups. If that was the case, then everyone described as an Anglophone (in the UK, Ireland, Hong Kong, English-speaking Africa, etc) are all members of the English ethnic group; and all Francophone peoples (in France, Belgium, Switzerland, Mauritius, South America and Africa) are all members of the French ethnic group. There are no commonly used terms for Greek or Turkish speakers, such as Hellenophone or Turcophone, so sometimes the short-hand terms, Greek and Turk, are employed instead for ease. Still, all the census and anthropological material I have identified above detail Cypriot ethnicity, regardless of the fact that Cyprus' official languages are the same as that of Greece and Turkey, which is something the article should address. —Olympian (talk) 19:03, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Ι would suggest to stop this endless playing with the words. Is leading to nowhere. --Factuarius (talk) 19:36, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm not intentionally trying to play with words. In response to the debate on whether Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots are considered ethnic groups, I have collected published material which explicitly describes and observes Cypriot ethnicity. Therefore, I would suggest that we reflect this information and list Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot ethnicity in what is supposed to be a neutral and unbiased encyclopaedia article. —Olympian (talk) 20:12, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

All I see above is a bunch of hand-waving ORguments, e.g. "Cypriots may be regarded casually as Greeks and Turks because of the languages spoken, but that does not make them members of the Greek and Turkish ethnic groups." There is a clear consensus against you. Athenean (talk) 20:15, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

I have to agree. The rather silly claim that Greeks does not really mean Greeks, but is shorthand for something else, smacks of original research. On Wikipedia, we don't go by what we think the sources should say, but by what they actually say. And, since his own sources call them Greeks, he would have to provide new sources which explicitly support his claim that there is a distinct Cypriot ethnicity. ·ΘΕΟΔΩΡΟΣ· 04:59, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

No offense but the Cyprus Mail is not a top notch or quality newspaper and has minimal sales because it is aimed at english speaking FOREIGNERS and NOT Cypriots. It is also staffed largely by British people and some FAILED GCypriot journalists, especially those of a british background who cannot possibly speak or write proper Greek and thus cannot get a job in a DECENT Greek language newspaper. Trying to base your argument on an article by Cyprus Mail, which is renowned of expressing BRITISH views on cypriot issues, is not just poor but also RETARDED. —Preceding unsigned comment added by WhiteMagick (talk • contribs) 18:41, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

The Cyprus Mail is the second highest selling paper in Cyprus. Given that first inaccuracy, there seems little point in dealing with the more, erm, subjective elements of this last comment. Vizjim (talk) 22:47, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

I think you are confusing Cyprus Mail with Cyprus Weekly which is published only on fridays and has the 2nd highest sales on that day alone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by WhiteMagick (talk • contribs) 17:33, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Knowing personally many of the journalists who work for the Cyprus mail and the Cyprus Weekly I can confirm that they are mostly Cypriots, and some of them are decent journalists. Having actually lived in Cyprus I can also confirm that Athenean's usage of Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot is valid and current and well understood in Cyprus. For the Greek Cypriots there is a slight confusion in that they would identify themselves as Greek (using that term in English) but the word they would use in Greek would be Elladites and not Ellenas (Ellenas means a person with Greek nationality, Elladites refers to an idea of pan-Greekness a member of the larger Greek community, the Greek diaspora. This argument about what was written in the constitution of 1960 is silly. With a subject so fluid and raw as the Cyprus Problem and Cypriot ethnicity why rest your case on terms used 50 years ago. The majority of people in Cyprus would uphold the validity of the terms Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot and those people would not want to be confused with mainland Greeks (who often appear in the south as soldiers doing national service with their shaved hair and strange expressions) and mainland Turks (who according to Turkish Cypriots I have spoken to are considered very different from Turkish Cypriots). A movement toward a unified Cypriot ethnicity has gained pace since the Anan plan and beyond and has gained currency, the Greek and Turkish signifiers (as in Greek and Turkish Cypriot) could be considered to refer to language as Athenean suggests. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.4.27.139 (talk) 13:24, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Turkish invasion

Hi Athenean - I notice you undid my edit about the reason for displacement.

You said "it was the major reason" and you are correct - that it was not the only reason though. At the moment it reads "The Turkish invasion was the reason..." which implies it was the only reason and that they started after the invasion.

The intercommunal problems were the reason though - hence the reason for my edit. It is wrong to solely blame it on the Turkish invasion when there were displacemnets before that event

Chaosdruid (talk) 21:11, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

But most of the displacement took place as a direct result of the invasion. True, there were displacements prior to the invasion, but these were minor. The major reason was the invasion. If you'd like, we can qualify the statement. Athenean (talk) 21:29, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

I have edited the lead to say "The intercommunal violence and susequent Turkish invasion led to the displacement of hundreds of thousands of Cypriots and the establishment of a separate Turkish Cypriot political entity in the north. These events and the resulting political situation are matters of ongoing dispute."

I trust this is more in keeping with neutral PoV and a more acceptable version to all concerned.

Chaosdruid (talk) 02:54, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

The problem with that is that it puts the displacement due to the intercommunal violence and the displacement due to the invasion on an equal footing. They aren't. Pre-invasion displacement was minor compared to what followed during the invasion. The invasion was THE major factor in the displacement. NPOV does not mean we have to follow political correctness. Athenean (talk) 03:33, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

The invasion was a continuation of the violence - without the violence there would not have been an invasion at that time, if at all.

We agree that they are the sole reasons for that displacement: that there was no other reason for it ?

There can only be an issue with you wanting to say that there was more displacement after the invasion ?

Chaosdruid (talk) 03:47, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

That is the issue. MOST of the displacement took place during the invasion. That much is clear and obvious. The invasion and intercommunal violence should not be given equal weight for the sake of political correctness. NPOV and political correctness are two completely different things. Athenean (talk) 04:03, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

you guys are insane... or simply misled with this Hala Sultan Tekke thing. these sources must be biased or simply not well informed

Why would any Chrsitian consider Hala Sultan Tekke sacred? You can't just go and say that, you must explain a Christian denomination's motivations for calling this site sacred. Because I certainly think that the Prophet Muhammad and / or his wet nurse don't really account to much to say... the Catholic Church or the Cypriot Orthodox Church or the Orthodox Church of Greece or the Orthodox Church of C-ple. I bet there are even Buddhists from China who think this site is sacred, aren't there?! I mean... no disrespect here, it's just simply unbelievable. Show me just one Christian source that says this Tekke is sacred TO CHRISTIANS in any way. Maybe it's respected by all communities, that's a different thing. I really need to see a Christian motivation to regarding it sacred to be able to swallow this one. As for the 3rd most sacred place in Islam there are literally HUNDREDS of very good and reliable academic sources that state plainly that the Mosque of Al-Aqsa in the Haram Ash-Sharif, i.e. Temple Mount complex is the third most sacred place in Islam after the mosques of Mekke and Medine. From Israeli sources to Palestinian sources (secular and religious), to Arabic sources (like Egyptian ones), to even Turkish sources (just check out the site of Diyanet İşleri Başkanlığı - Presidency of Religious Affairs of Turkey), to even radical fundamentalist Jewish sources (like the guys who want to bring down the Dome of the Rock and Al-Aqsa to build the 3rd Temple). All of these acknowledge Al-Aqsa as the 3rd most holiest place in Islam. Just check out the Wikipedia page for Al Aqsa and Haram al-Sharif and you'll find there all the sources you need. The sources cited here, which are obviously Turkish Cypriot sources seemed simply not to be informed well enough (if not altogether biased) if they can't even agree with the Diyanet İşleri Başkanlığı of Turkey.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.77.239.121 (talk) 14:29, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

I am indeed also concerned about the statement and the references given. One of them clearly states that since the 1974 incidents there has been a drop in the number of pilgrims to almost none - it seems that sites are ranked according to three things, Mohammedan places of residence, descendants of Mohammed and numbers of pilgrims visiting the sites.

I also feel that we have no need whatsoever for the SEVEN refs given there. For now I have moved the text from the picture and placed it in the main article but would urge all editors to try and remain calm while we try and sort this out.

There are not many places one can go to research this material and I would like to point out that the text actually states:-

"third holiest site in Sunni Islam"

Amy assistance on finding references to either prove or disprove this would be helpful as the ones cited seem to all say "in the Islamic world" rather than Sunni. I do not really think that it is realistic to say "in the Isalmic world" as, after reading sources for over an hour, it seems that it almost definitely is not the third in the Islamic world; it may be in the Sunni though. It seems odd that there are so many factions of Islam and they all seem to disregard many of each others sites due to disagreements on things such as whether "person X died here at A" or "here at B" and beliefs as to whether or not person X was actually descended from Mohammed

Chaosdruid (talk) 03:06, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

It is my understanding that the third holiest site in Islam is the Al Aqsa Mosque. I can also say that there is absolutely NO chance of Christians of any sort considering this place sacred. Considering the whole thing was added by User:Olympic god, I think a large pinch of salt is called for. Athenean (talk) 03:14, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Pronunciation

I'm living in the middle east and When I was a kid I was listening to a radio station whose broadcaster would say "saipress" ("radio saipress"). I believed I was listening to a radio broadcasting from Cyprus. But I now see Cyprus is pronounced differently. Hmmm... I wonder. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.172.13.254 (talk) 14:56, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm maybe they would have less troubles if they weren't so binary? Like if they had four official languages instead of two. Say, Arabic and Armenian, something like that, in addition to Greek and Turkish. That could help. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.179.32.59 (talk) 23:19, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Or just maybe one - Cypriot ? Chaosdruid (talk) 19:13, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Pictures and edit war

Hi all

Most of the pics are on the right hand side. It seems to me that they are better on that side so they do not break up the text.

Can we at least leave them there for now rather than anyone starting and edit war on such a simple matter ?

Chaosdruid (talk) 19:01, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Incredible and Blatant Greek Propaganda

This whole article is a disgrace. Such blatant and tranparent Greek propaganda. Unfortunately it seems to be the norm for Wikipeda where the ethnic zealots seem to rule. Greeks and Armenians are under the delusion that they can actually re-write history and have the ending change to their taste. It is a disgrace that Wikipedia allows this to take place. Eventually it will cease to be a reliable source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.186.248.90 (talk) 15:09, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

hey you get turks doing it to. so dont say thay dont. oh evryone does it