Module talk:Israeli-Palestinian conflict detailed map

Needed?

Apart from the obvious technical problems, what is wrong with {{Israeli-Palestinian Conflict}} that we need another template? Debresser (talk) 13:57, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

I don't know about it. I just made this template because i want to complete the Banak's list about the maps that might benefit. Maybe needed, of course. --SMB99thx XD (contribs) 23:10, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

SMB99thx I think this map sounds like a decent idea. It's awesome if you agree with me, but don't do something just because I said so. Feel free to disagree with my list, it was a rush job.

Debresser is a template to generate a map as opposed to a navigational template. Banak (talk) 01:11, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Banak okay. --SMB99thx XD (contribs) 03:59, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

And what do we need that for? Debresser (talk) 06:30, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Debresser

1. Some people find value in such maps of their own merit. For example, Template:Syrian Civil War detailed map is one of the best maps out there
2. These maps can be used to construct .png maps of the same thing, for inclusion in articles, like File:Syrian civil war.png.

This detailed map could also, for example, show the location of settlements if people wanted to take it in that direction. Banak (talk) 10:22, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Okay. Is this template ready for use? Because it still needs documentation, and to inform the relevant WikiProjects about its existence. Debresser (talk) 13:24, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Debresser I think this template is ready for use as i recently made the documentation and i have created more marks for this template (not very complete yet). You can inform this template to its WikiProject here. --SMB99thx XD (contribs) 11:50, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

I think you should have the honor to do that. By the way, per its title this template should probably be announced on Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine as well. Debresser (talk) 21:51, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Done, with a bit of fear and if it is accepted, i will add the templates WikiProject Israel and WikiProject Palestine to this top of the talk page. --SMB99thx XD (contribs) 13:22, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

I have been waiting for replies, and but there is no replies in there. meh, added these templates for these reason and i don't like this at all. --SMB99thx XD (contribs) 07:50, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

SMB99thx, thanks for making this map. It could be a very good addition. The main challenge is there there is no active military conflict as in a conventional war, only an ongoing terrorist and rocket threat, and a military occupation. Can this map show be used to show historical areas of conflict? Perhaps we could have one for each of the major wars (1948, 1967, 1973). Oncenawhile (talk) 14:03, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

This map also can be used to show the civilian conflicts, for example, there is a conflict in 2015 to now are mostly civilians. But i can accept historical events if there is a special icon for it. --SMB99thx XD (contribs) 05:48, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

We should have a submap of the Arab and Jewish areas of Jerusalem. I definitely don't think historical events should be added. --Monochrome_Monitor 18:40, 1 May 2016 (UTC) Also, I think we should distinguish between Fatah and Hamas-ruled areas, and maybe between areas A/B/C of the West Bank. --Monochrome_Monitor 18:50, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

I agree with the above comments about also showing "civilian conflicts", "ongoing terrorist and rocket threat, and a military occupation". Tradedia^talk 16:48, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Scale of Map and other comments.

Regarding the Map size, its way too big, since most cities are long held by the main actors I recomend to reduce the size of the map. Congratz, to the Template creator its a good initiative to have this at hand, anyhting could happend nowadays, the whole region its a tinderbox.Mr.User200 (talk) 13:21, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Area B

Area B is defined under the Oslo accords as "Palestinian civil control and joint Israeli-Palestinian security control". I need to mark a town in this area, and I'm not sure whether I should put a joint control icon or a full Palestinian icon. I'm going with joint control for now. Pbfreespace3 (talk) 01:18, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Introductory text

I have corrected a minor error in this map. I feel obliged to point out that its introductory text (transcluded from /doc) is the most aggressively anti-editor piece of ownership I have seen in my twelve years at Wikipedia. Certes (talk) 15:42, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

@Certes: Thank you for your feedback. You can take a look at Talk:Cities and towns during the Syrian Civil War/Archive 52#Important message from creator of map: Please read for background about the "introductory text". You can also take a look at the 65 archive pages of Talk:Cities and towns during the Syrian Civil War for further background. Feel free to make more comments... Tradedia^talk 16:48, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Israel color

Can we change the color of the Israeli-controlled areas to sky blue (for example; the blue found in File:Emblem of Israel alternative.svg)? I feel like it would better contrast with the dark green in Gaza, while also contrasting with the light green for the West Bank. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 22:06, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

That shouldn't be too difficult, technically, but I'm worried that a change like that would begin to blend into the ocean and bodies of water, making things look deceptive. -- Veggies (talk) 03:40, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

I agree that sky blue might blend into the sea and bodies of water. However, how about a more radical change, like red? For example, in the Syria war map template, the government is in red. If we do this then we can change hezbollah to yellow. Tradedia^talk 23:41, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

If we're going to change something to red, it would make a bit more sense for it to be one of the Palestinian groups; the Flag of Palestine has red in it, and it would be reasonably associated that way. Israel being blue (national color, more or less), seems like something to keep here. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 03:47, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

I'm good with changing Hamas to red and Palestinian authority to bright red or orange... Tradedia^talk 08:12, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Below are a few icons that could be useful:

Location dot dark red.svg

Location dot orange.svg

Location dot yellow.svg

80x80-orange-blue-anim.gif

80x80-red-orange-anim.gif Tradedia^talk 02:02, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

The only issue is that Hezbollah is currently red. Honestly, I think we should hash out all potential parties on this map: Lebanese forces, Hezbollah, Syrian government forces, other possible Syrian factions, West Bank Palestinians, West Bank settlers(?), Hamas, Egyptian forces, Jordanian forces (?). Just a thought. -- Veggies (talk) 18:51, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Ok, sounds good. I propose Hamas = red; Palestinian authority = orange; hezbollah = yellow; Israel = same as now (blue). I"ll let you (and others) decide on the colors of the other parties. Tradedia^talk 18:18, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Here is what I think of the issue:

1. Israel - blue, no point for discussion.

2. Hamas and Palestine have to be of the same color, per international consideration of Palestinian territory. Green is one of the colors of Palestinian flag and dominant color of Hamas. Maybe shall be left green, but swap shades (Hamas icon features a brighter green)

3. Hezbollah (Lebannon) - bright red, dominant color of Lebannese flag. That's the only other point why I think Hamas shouldn't be red. Of this and point 2 it would be better to elaborate on further.

4. Syrian government - dark red, as proposed.

5. Israeli settlements of West Bank may be colored in a lighter blue if it doesn't blend into water. Another possibility could be dark blue or bright purple (not to overlap with contested territories)

6. Egypt - yellow.

7. Jordan should also be included. Is it possible to use some sort of bright grey? If not, we could color it turquoise.

Also, I think the Hezbollah territory should be a bit more detailed. Just a thought. Eagowl | talk | 10:49, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

But what if there are clashes between Israel and Palestine, like in the following edit: https://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Module:Israeli-Palestinian_conflict_detailed_map&diff=prev&oldid=967032702 Tradedia^talk 19:55, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

I don't actually see what's the problem here. The colors as they stand now (Hamas/Ramallah Palestine) are pretty distinctive, although the clash icon between Israel and Hamas looks a bit unclear in its resolution. We can actually change one of the colors (preferrably Hamas) to another shade maybe, or really color it orange. By the way, does the non-truce Israel-Palestine presence icon (Hebron on the map) feature a brighter green compared to others? Eagowl | talk | 04:05, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Yes, indeed, the problem that started this section is, as the beginning of the section indicates: "... the color of the Israeli-controlled areas ... better contrast with the dark green in Gaza..." Also, you are correct that the non-truce Israel-Palestine presence icon ("lime") feature a brighter green compared to others ("green 0d0"). This is an inconsistency. Tradedia^talk 04:53, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Then I feel we should brighten up Gaza green just a little bit, because the two of them make up two dull colors. And we should do that in the dot file itself, because the dots of mixed control of green and other colors feature a different tone of green.Eagowl | talk | 05:33, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

I saw you changed the dot color of Palestine (in the documentation) to lime and that is the right thing to do. Let me make sure i understand what you are proposing... So you are suggesting we use lime for hamas? But then, what do we use for Palestine to avoid the contrast problem with Israel blue? Tradedia^talk 08:55, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

I'm proposing to:

1. Recolor Hamas to lime. It contrasts pretty well with Israeli blue.

2. Leave Ramallah Palestine as it stands now, if this color reaches the purpose. For me these two are easy to differentiate from each other and it accomplishes our goal.Eagowl | talk | 09:10, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Anyway, the 0d0 green now lacks a contest icon and stable mixed control, so perhaps we should either use an interim color for Palestine (such as orange) or elaborate further on the color pair. In the meantime, I can create the mixed control one. But I don't actually know how to create "contested" icons, do you? Eagowl | talk | 10:12, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

I can handle the graphics but I need to know precisely what colors (HEX code, please) represent what parties. I'll be able to do contested areas, etc. -- Veggies (talk) 04:16, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

All the above sound good. Tradedia^talk 05:32, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

In simple terms, please: what colors for who, precisely? -- Veggies (talk)

For now most importatly is West Bank - a squared combat and split color icon with blue (0000ff, for Israel) and green (00e000, for Palestine). Also, if possible, could you make the naval, rural presence, airbase, strategic hill etc. in 00e000 for better consistency? As we move forward in adding other parties, it's possible we would need an Israel-Syria combat icon with dark red (9d0000, for Syria) and same blue, but this one is purely optional. Eagowl | 06:47, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

• 
  Israel vs Syria
• 
  Green naval base
• 
  Green peak
• 
  Green military base
• 
  Green airbase
• 
  Israel vs Fatah
• 
  Green oil field
• 
  Green power plant
• 
  Green rural area

Some of these were already created and on Commons, but, here it is. Let me know your thoughts. -- Veggies (talk) 01:11, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Everything is fine, the only trouble is that combat icons are twice faster than the others and the angles are less smooth than the existing icons'. Anyway, I'll recolor the map as soon as possible. Thank you very much for your help. Eagowl | talk | 01:20, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

I've rounded the flashing icons. Honestly, I think active combat should flash at 0.5 s per frame. Let me know if you think otherwise. -- Veggies (talk) 16:03, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Now that's perfect! Yes, I think you're right about flashing time, I also like a more speedy variant. Now I'll recolor Hamas and Palestine. Thank you once again for helping to figure it out. Eagowl | talk | 21:34, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Map portrayal

The map claims to show a completely pacified border with no clashes occurring at all, this is not only contradictory to what’s happening on the ground, it’s contradicting several Wikipedia entries/articles covering the topic. Clashes are currently happening in Sderot and Netivot yet apparently it’s all fine there. Someone needs to fix up the map. I’ll provide any more sources I can find within the next 8-12 hours A.H.T Videomapping (talk) 05:16, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

@A.H.T Videomapping: When have clashes occurred in the past 24 hours in Sderot and Netivot? Those are major urban centers and we would know if militants were still inside them. Currently, Sderot is being evacuated. I need a source for these "clashes". -- Veggies (talk) 07:37, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

As articles are being written and published by mainstream media sources, I have some reports of infiltrations and attacks on Zikim and “south of Mefalsim” which suggests the presence of Hamas militants within Israel

https://x.com/safaps/status/1713602818605453346?s=46

https://x.com/joetruzman/status/1713597909277851891?s=46 A.H.T Videomapping (talk) 18:07, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Twitter is not a citable source for this. Even if it were, that second link you cited is so vague ("security incident") there's nothing to report. The first one sounds like a Palestinian drone. And neither mention Sderot or Netivot as you asserted. -- Veggies (talk) 02:10, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

It is certainly more reliable than what the original map has cited to imply all Palestinian militant presence in Israel has been eliminated The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 05:44, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

More information has come to light as gun battles rage in Zikim,Karmia and Netiv HaAsara, this comes after raids by Hamas near Sufa,Nir Oz and Nir Am yesterday and Today that inflicted several casualties and damage on IDF forces

https://israelpalestine.liveuamap.com/en/2023/24-october-suspected-infiltration-alarm-again-sounds-in-zikim A.H.T Videomapping (talk) 22:06, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

More misinformation in this Map, showing Beit Hanoun as fully israeli controlled and Jabalia contested. Unless the only sources you are using is "OSINTdefender" "Visegard24" and "Israel War Room" this is false and not conducive to a proclaimed "bias free" encyclopedia A.H.T Videomapping (talk) 14:16, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

As of today, the markings on the map show Beit Hanoun contested and Jabalia controled by Hamas. Tradedia^talk 22:41, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Should we portray other events?

I was wondering if we should portray things like evacuated cities or airstrikes in some way. -- Veggies (talk) 04:03, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Very good idea. Tradedia^talk 05:25, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

For example, for airstrikes, we could use the animated gif: "6X6 Anim 5PX.gif". We could put it in the middle of a town. For example, this is how it would look for Beit Lahia:

Beit Lahia

Airstrike

class=notpageimage|

.

The code would be as below, where we add a line to Beit Lahia code and the size of the new icon ("6X6 Anim 5PX.gif") is one third of the size of the town (in this case, 17 divided by 3 = 6):

{ lat = "31.5539", long = "34.501381", mark = "Location dot lime.svg", marksize = "17", label = "Beit Lahia", link = "Beit Lahia", label_size = "0", position = "top" }, { lat = "31.5539", long = "34.501381", mark = "6X6 Anim 5PX.gif", marksize = "6"},

Alternatively, we could use the jet fighter icon but make it a flashing animated gif... Tradedia^talk 18:44, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Great idea. It would really help understanding what is happening in Israel. Eagowl | talk | 12:09, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

And for evacuated cities, for example, we could put a white dot in the middle of a town to make it look like a donut. For example, this is how it would look for Beit Lahia:

Beit Lahia

evacuated city

class=notpageimage|

.

The code is the same as for airstrikes, except that we are using the icon "Location dot white.svg". Tradedia^talk 16:54, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Too many cities?

Recently I've seen lots of new location dots emerging in West Bank and southeastern Israel. They are considerably small (some of them don't even open when tapped) and depict small villages and even neighbourhoods, with its populations below 10'000 and with unspecified strategic meaning during all I-P conflict. The work done to search and place them all on a map is colossal, but maybe we should limit this map with big cities which are within the scope of the conflict? Eagowl | talk | 12:09, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

This conflict really doesn't really involve big city-to-big city fighting. The majority of villages and towns that were stormed by Hamas on October 7 were <10K people. All dots (apart from maybe one or two Arab neighborhoods in the Gaza Strip) have a corresponding article and should open. -- Veggies (talk) 14:27, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

I see and that's true. However, maybe we could leave out some villages in West Bank and Israel which are insuffecient in the conflict (because there's even no active coverage of most confrontations in West Bank) and lead to stub articles and where the population is below 1K, so that only some important villages, such as Re'im, Ein HaSholsha and some like that remain? If we do that, we could label cities such as Jerusalem, Hebron and others back for better navigation. Look, for example, at Russo-Ukrainian map; the dots there are mostly far away from each other and most pf them are labled. What do you think? Eagowl | talk | 03:50, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

My own personal standard for detailed war maps is modeled on what I consider to be the platinum standard maps: (Template:Syrian Civil War detailed map and Template:Iraqi insurgency detailed map). Those two maps are each enormously detailed. My personal recommendation, if you feel things are getting too crowded, would be to use a slightly different SVG template (with less of Jordan and Egypt visible) and, then, make the map much larger, so that there is greater space between close settlements, villages, kibbutzes, etc. -- Veggies (talk) 04:12, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Gaza contested (?)

Maybe change it contested due to territorial change in NW Gaza City on the "normal" map?Berobalkan (talk) 08:45, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

A " Enemy pressure from one side" icon was added to the West of the city. Making the whole city contested seems a bit too much at this date. Idealy, we will never make the whole city contested but rather try to track the situation in the different neighborhoods/parts of the city. Tradedia^talk 19:21, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

What are the differences?

What are the differences between "Non-truce stable mixed control" and "Contested"? --NasalCavityRespiratory (talk) 09:55, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

I am assuming you’re talking about Hebron. “Contested cities” mean that Israeli and Palestinian forces are fighting within or over the control of the city. “Stable mixed control” here refers to the fact both Israel and palestine share control over Hebron without fighting each other (refer to H1 H2 in Hebron) The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 07:31, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Yes, this is true. I think that the confusion comes from the inclusion of truce icon. This was copy/pasted from the Syria war map and is not used on this map (and not needed). I just removed the icon from the map caption. Tradedia^talk 18:16, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Outdated

The current map should show all cities in Gaza as green except for Gaza city, under siege, and nuseirat, zahra, juhr ad-deek and Beit Hanoun, which are contested The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 13:18, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Strongly Agree. Israel has withdrawn from Khan Yunis. [1] Hind242 (talk) 11:29, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, just carry it out. Evaporation123 (talk) 00:43, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Fixed, i wasn't aware i was able to update the module The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 04:10, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Israel withdrawing from a town does not mean automatically that Hamas gained control of it. The color "lime" on the map is for Hamas specifically. Are all the places now colored lime on the map controlled by Hamas? Are there places that are not controlled by anybody? Tradedia^talk 19:15, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Nearly the areas are controlled by Hamas. For example, Beit Hanoun and khan yunis, or shujaiyya and most of Gaza city, and previously contested areas are still being used to attack soldiers stationed near them or shell border communities The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 09:44, 7 May 2024 (UTC)