Help talk:IPA/Estonian

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Linguistics: Phonetics

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Estonia

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Voiced stops[edit]

I am not an expert in phonetics, so I'm leaving a note rather than editing. Concerning the footnote:

      > [b], [f], [ɡ], and [ʃ] occur only in loanwords. In casual speech, they may be replaced with [p], [k], and [s], respectively.

I don't think that is quite correct. First of all, voiced stops ([b], [g], [d]) do not exist in Estonian, these are always replaced by the respective voiceless stops, even in loanwords. Not doing so means a foreign accent. Secondly, the sounds that can only occur in loanwords are f [f], š [ʃ], and ž [ʐ]. In casual but correct speech, I think the only thing that gets replaced is ʐ --> ʃ, so instead of žonglöör, most people would say šonglöör. [f] may become either [v] or [hv] -- so one might say "vilosoohvia" instead of "filosoofia", but that sounds uneducated. Finally, one may say [s] instead of [ʃ], at the risk of sounding like Eliza Dolittle ("sokulaat" instead of "šokolaad"). [ʔ] is not used in standard Estonian, but does exist in Southern Estonian (Võro/Seto). Lebatsnok (talk) 08:38, 30 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I don't speak Estonian, but I thought the same thing about [f], seeing how Koffer is rendered as Kohver. Also, even if [p] were a more usual equivalent, the current mapping (4 phonemes on 3 phonemes) is unclear to people with no background in linguistics (may be replaced with [p], [p], [k], and [s], respectively would do better). 89.64.80.178 (talk) 17:23, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]