Draft talk:Villa Fraccaroli

Autumn 2024 Educational Project Page

This page is part of an Educational Project by students of LIUC, Italy, with a course page at: [1]https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/LIUC_-_Universit%C3%A0_Cattaneo/Digital_Technology_(October_-_December,_2024) . The users of the group are new to the Wikipedia platform, have completed mandatory Training for Students, and are learning to edit following Wikipedia rules. They are open to any advice on improvements of the page in conformity to Wikipedia requirements and guidelines, and any help useful for the enhancement of the page will be gladly accepted. The student Usernames are:

• LIUCgiuli27
• Liucmicol01
• RiccardoD.LIUC
• LIUCstampa1
• Lu13.plati
• LIUCAmanjot1
• su13.koroma

Issues or questions can be referred direct to the users or to their tutor @Limelightangel Limelightangel (talk) 14:02, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Feedback on Draft 1/11/24

@LIUCgiuli27, Liucmicol01, RiccardoD.LIUC, LIUCstampa1, Lu13.plati, LIUCAmanjot1, and Su13.koroma:

• text has been inserted above the draft banner tag. This tag needs to be moved to the top of the page: AfC submission|t||ts=20241025161912|u=Liucmicol01|ns=118|demo=}}Y
• there are 3 grammatical errors in the first line of textY
• Needs an Infobox: find a relevant Infobox template from Wikipedia:List of infoboxes and Template:Infobox building, and use this templare correctly, or find a similar page with a relevant Infobox, and use this. Note that these are templates with rules on how they are used and for acceptable field content/formatY
• note the guidelines and good practice on lead (or introductory) sections, and look at good practice on other pages. See: Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section. Use this to develop this section. See also Wikipedia:Writing_better_articles#Lead_section.

Limelightangel (talk) 14:59, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

• the lead section has no sources
• the Infobox has a red error related to an imageY
• the section on Legend' has fundamental issues:
  • it has no sources
  • the section header is unclear
  • the style is unacceptable: 'The strange thing is that'; 'however'; etc. See the relevant sections in Wikipedia:Manual of Style
  • structure: it is located in the wrong part of the page
  • the content was added without the user logging in
• the Template:Infobox building has been used but many of the availble fields not been used

Limelightangel (talk) 20:12, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Feedback on Draft 12/11/24

@LIUCgiuli27, Liucmicol01, RiccardoD.LIUC, LIUCstampa1, Lu13.plati, LIUCAmanjot1, and Su13.koroma:

• text has been inserted above the draft banner tag. This tag needs to be moved to the top of the page: AfC submission|t||ts=20241025161912|u=Liucmicol01|ns=118|demo=}} Y
• the single External link is formated incorrectly. See Wikipedia:External links and how it is done better on other pagesY
• extensive overlinking. Over 20 occurences need removing. Note, understand and avoid overlinking See Wikipedia:Manual of Style/LinkingY
• linking: See Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Linking.
  • You link out once, the first time the linked text is used
  • do not duplicate links out
• the page needs relevant and acceptable images e.g. of the architect and the villa itself  Partly done
• all 8 references are incorrectly formated, inconsistently formatted, grammatically incorrect and/or missing available source data e.g. authors
• there are no See Also links. See Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Layout#"See_also"_section
• structure needs changing, with History coming before Legend, Architecture, etc.
• Several sections are incorrectly titled e.g. Geography; Architect; Landscape and Accessibility; Legend; etc.
• Several edits have been made without the user logging in Y
• Several parts have no sources, including the entire History section and 2 paragraphs in the Legend; several sections have just single, low-quality sources (e.g. blog, tourism websites) and need complementing with better and more authorative sources  Partly done
• structure:
  • the final unsourced paragraph in History may be better in another sectionY
  • the first 2 sentences in the limited 'History' section are not history and should go in a better sectionY
  • some contebt in Architecture belongs in History
• duplicate content e.g. located in Piovene Rocchette; was never completed; etc.Y
• minor issues with style e.g. 'in the heart of'; 'Observing the facade'; 'nestled among lush vegetation'; etc. See Manual_of_Style#Vocabulary Partly done
• minor grammar issues e.g. 'Including views of Monte Summano, a prominent local mountain peak. '; 'regional trails. Which are popular for'; etc. Partly done
• still issues with the lead section, including providing the Italian name for the topic: Palazzina Fraccaroli Y
• inconsistencies e.g. use of Palazzina Fraccaroli, Villa Fraccaroli, Fraccaroli mansion and Castle FraccaroliY
• needs adding to relevant Categories. See Help:Category
• status in Infobox may be incorrect - check if it is unfinished, incomplete, or 'Destroyed'. See the options for the status field at Template:Infobox building
• interwiki links are acceptable but the one to Negrin is incorrectly formaated: see Help:Interwiki linking
• given the extensive issues listed here and in the earlier post it is advised to discuss & correctly 'check off' issues where they are listed when completed to manage these tasks. See Help:Talk Partly done
• content: Google Books has potential factual sources related to this topic and the family e.g. search on 'fracarroli Piovene Rocchette', etc.

Limelightangel (talk) 10:31, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

• text has been inserted above the draft banner tag. This tag needs to be moved to the top of the page: AfC submission|t||ts=20241025161912|u=Liucmicol01|ns=118|demo=}}  Done
• the single External link is formated incorrectly. See Wikipedia:External links and how it is done better on other pages
• extensive overlinking. Over 20 occurences need removing. Note, understand and avoid overlinking See Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Linking  Done
• linking: See Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Linking.
  • You link out once, the first time the linked text is used
  • do not duplicate links out  Done
• the page needs relevant and acceptable images e.g. of the architect and the villa itself
• all 8 references are incorrectly formated, inconsistently formatted, grammatically incorrect and/or missing available source data e.g. authors
• there are no See Also links. See Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Layout#"See_also"_section
• structure needs changing, with History coming before Legend, Architecture, etc.  Done
• Several sections are incorrectly titled e.g. Geography; Architect; Landscape and Accessibility; Legend; etc.  Partly done:
• Several edits have been made without the user logging in
• Several parts have no sources, including the entire History section and 2 paragraphs in the Legend; several sections have just single, low-quality sources (e.g. blog, tourism websites) and need complementing with better and more authorative sources
• structure:
  • the final unsourced paragraph in History may be better in another section
  • the first 2 sentences in the limited 'History' section are not history and should go in a better section  Done
  • some contebt in Architecture belongs in History  Done
• duplicate content e.g. located in Piovene Rocchette; was never completed; etc.
• minor issues with style e.g. 'in the heart of'; 'Observing the facade'; 'nestled among lush vegetation'; etc. See Manual_of_Style#Vocabulary Partly done:
• minor grammar issues e.g. 'Including views of Monte Summano, a prominent local mountain peak. '; 'regional trails. Which are popular for'; etc. Done
• still issues with the lead section, including providing the Italian name for the topic: Palazzina FraccaroliY
• inconsistencies e.g. use of Palazzina Fraccaroli, Villa Fraccaroli, Fraccaroli mansion and Castle FraccaroliY
• needs adding to relevant Categories. See Help:CategoryY
• status in Infobox may be incorrect - check if it is unfinished, incomplete, or 'Destroyed'. See the options for the status field at Template:Infobox buildingY
• interwiki links are acceptable but the one to Negrin is incorrectly formaated: see Help:Interwiki linking
• given the extensive issues listed here and in the earlier post it is advised to discuss & correctly 'check off' issues where they are listed when completed to manage these tasks. See Help:Talk
• content: Google Books has potential factual sources related to this topic and the family e.g. search on 'fracarroli Piovene Rocchette', etc.

LIUCAmanjot1 (talk) 18:57, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Liucmicol01 (talk) 16:45, 15 November 2024 (UTC) @LIUCstampa1:

• references and sources are missing in the paragraph 'Architecture'

Su13.koroma (talk) 16:49, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

• sources and references are missing in the 'Location and Surroundings' paragraph either.

Castle or Villa

One thing I've noticed is that throughout the page we end up calling Fraccaroli Castle a Villa and viceversa (myself included). Additionally, the first section of Legends and Myths is not on topic but rather digs into my section of History which (in order to not repeat ourselves) we should agree on where to put it. RiccardoD.LIUC (talk) 17:18, 15 November 2024 (UTC) Su13.koroma (talk) 18:44, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

I agree with you I think the "Legends and Myths" section should only talk about the legend and the first paragraph should be included in "History". @RiccardoD.LIUC @LIUCgiuli27 LIUCAmanjot1 (talk) 08:26, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Architecture

Liucmicol01 (talk) 16:45, 15 November 2024 (UTC) @LIUCstampa1:

• the "Architecture" paragraph has no sources to support it.Y

Villa Verlato

I noticed we mention Villa Verlato in many sections, it is repetitive. I feel it has to be mentioned briefly in the "Location and Surroundings" as the villa is next to the Villa Fraccaroli. And maybe the "History" section should talk about it in more detail.--LIUCAmanjot1 (talk) 14:17, 21 November 2024 (UTC) @Liucmicol01@RiccardoD.LIUC @LIUCgiuli27 @Su13.koroma

History

Liucmicol01 (talk) 16:45, 15 November 2024 (UTC) @RiccardoD.LIUC:

• the "History" paragraph has no sources to support it. Y

Liucmicol01 (talk) 12:34, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Quick Tip: "the" Villa Fraccaroli

I noticed, while fixing problems with the style and tone of the article, that most of you end up commiting the same grammatical error. When you wish to adress Villa Fraccaroli you don't, for the most part, have to use "the" as it is an official name. For instance: "Many people have purchased Villa Fraccaroli" instead of "Many people have purchased the Villa Fraccaroli".

The sentence "Negrin was ordered to construct the villa" is correct as you are not using the name itself but instead recalling it. "Negrin was ordered to construct the Villa Fraccaroli" on the other hand is wrong as it should be written "Negrin was ordered to construct Villa Fraccaroli".

Hope the tip helps and apologies if it's not clear but my teaching skills are..... lacking :) RiccardoD.LIUC (talk) 15:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Links

@LIUCgiuli27, RiccardoD.LIUC, LIUCstampa1, LIUCAmanjot1, and Su13.koroma:

• effective linking is missing

Liucmicol01 (talk) 14:56, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Pictures

@LIUCgiuli27, RiccardoD.LIUC, LIUCstampa1, LIUCAmanjot1, and Su13.koroma:

• pictures of Villa Fraccaroli are missing

Liucmicol01 (talk) 13:52, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Sources and paragraphs

@LIUCgiuli27, RiccardoD.LIUC, LIUCstampa1, LIUCAmanjot1, and Liucmicol01:

• in the 'flora and fauna' paragrapgh are missing the sources
• there are two paragraphs with the same name 'Location'

Su13.koroma (talk) 09:34, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Feedback on Draft 29/11/24

@LIUCgiuli27, Liucmicol01, RiccardoD.LIUC, LIUCstampa1, Lu13.plati, LIUCAmanjot1, and Su13.koroma:

• General Comments
  • The draft provides a well-documented account of Villa Fraccaroli, highlighting its architectural, historical, and cultural significance. However, improvements are needed to align with Wikipedia's standards for neutrality, readability, and reliability.
  • Neutrality: Avoid subjective and promotional language, particularly in the sections on legends and the architect's achievements.
  • Citations: Some references lack complete details or rely on potentially unreliable sources. Balance Italian and English references for accessibility.

• Lead Section
  • The lead effectively introduces the villa, its architectural style, and its historical context. However:
  • Avoid subjective phrasing like "imposing structure" and "rich with history." Replace with factual descriptions.
  • Condense details about the Fraccaroli and Verlato families, moving them to a dedicated section.
• Structure
  • Headings: Some headings (e.g., "Flora and Fauna," "Legend and Mysteries") could be renamed for clarity and relevance. Consider merging or reordering subsections for better flow.
  • Logical Order: Present the history and architecture sections earlier, as these provide foundational context for other content.
• References
  • Formatting: Several citations are incomplete or inconsistent:
    • Ref 2: Verify the reliability of the source and add publication details.
    • Ref 3: Missing access date and author details.
    • Ref 12: Ensure the source is not overly speculative or anecdotal.
  • Balance: Add more English-language sources to improve accessibility and demonstrate global interest.
  • Unreliable Sources: Avoid blogs or websites with unverified content. Cross-check claims with academic or government sources.
• Images
  • Relevance: Images are appropriate but could benefit from clearer captions. For example: "Drone view of Villa Fraccaroli" → "Aerial view of Villa Fraccaroli showcasing its unfinished architecture."Y
  • Placement: Reorganize images to align with corresponding text sections (e.g., the front facade image near the "Architecture" section).
  • Licensing: Ensure images comply with Wikimedia Commons guidelines.
• Style and Tone
  • Neutrality:
    • "A tragic accident during construction adds to its eerie reputation" → Avoid sensationalism. State the fact without emotive language.Y
    • "Designed to repel evil spirits" → Replace with "featuring grotesque statuettes, believed to serve symbolic purposes."Y
  • Simplify Technical Language: Avoid overloading readers with architectural jargon. Provide brief explanations of terms like "corbels" or "pilasters."Y
  • Avoid Redundancy: Repeated mentions of the villa’s unfinished state could be consolidated.

• Specific Section Feedback
  • History
    • 19th Century:
      • Expand on the socio-economic context that influenced the villa’s construction and abandonment.
      • Clarify ownership transitions with dates and references.
    • 20th Century:
      • Provide more specifics about the villa’s role during World War I, particularly its strategic use.
    • 21st Century:
      • Elaborate on the FAI’s preservation efforts and their significance for cultural heritage. Y
  • Architecture
    • Exterior:
      • Highlight unique features like the grotesque statuettes and how they reflect the neoclassical style blended with regional influences.
    • Interior:
      • Condense details about the ground floor layout while emphasizing its neoclassical design elements.
      • Avoid excessive speculation about unbuilt features.
  • Gardens
    • Simplify descriptions of invasive plant species and focus on how the garden reflects the villa’s historical design intentions (e.g., Italian or English garden styles).
    • Avoid generalizations about seasonal changes unless directly tied to the villa’s aesthetic or preservation challenges.
  • Legend and Mysteries
    • While engaging, this section needs neutrality. Avoid phrases like "deeply fascinated by esoteric practices" and "restless spirit searching for peace." Focus on the documented origins of these legends.Y
    • Clarify the sources of these stories and avoid speculative interpretations.
  • Surroundings
    • Monte Summano: Highlight its ecological and historical significance in a concise manner. Avoid unrelated details about the mountain’s biodiversity.
    • Astico River: Focus on the river’s proximity and historical relevance to the villa rather than its ecological features.

• • Suggestions for Improvement
    • Neutralize Tone:
      • Replace subjective language with factual descriptions supported by reliable sources.
      • Example: "Renowned architect Antonio Caregaro Negrin" → "Architect Antonio Caregaro Negrin, known for his contributions to neoclassical architecture."Y
    • Streamline Content:
      • Condense repetitive sections, such as multiple mentions of the villa’s unfinished state or its legends.
    • Improve Verifiability:
      • Add secondary, independent sources to validate claims about historical events and legends.
    • Enhance Readability:
      • Use shorter paragraphs and clearer headings to improve reader engagement.

Greentree97 (talk) 13:51, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

As for the references we can not find any information about the topic in English, which is also the main reason we wanted to create this page. Even in Italian there are only a few sources which we can use, but we are still trying to look for better quality sources. We will work on the other points you mentioned. LIUCAmanjot1 (talk) 16:14, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Flora and Fauna

@LIUCgiuli27, RiccardoD.LIUC, LIUCstampa1, LIUCAmanjot1, and Su13.koroma:

• Sources, links and refeferences are missing in the paragraph "Flora and Fauna"

Liucmicol01 (talk) 14:56, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

architecture of the garden

@LIUCgiuli27, RiccardoD.LIUC, LIUCstampa1, LIUCAmanjot1, Liucmicol01, and Lu13.plati: in the 'architecture of the garden' paragraph the reference is missing Su13.koroma (talk) 11:00, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

History

@LIUCgiuli27, RiccardoD.LIUC, LIUCstampa1, LIUCAmanjot1, and Su13.koroma:

• Sources are missing to support the second part of the paragraph "19th century"

Liucmicol01 (talk) 12:04, 6 December 2024 (UTC)