Draft talk:Philip Rylands

Autumn 2024 Educational Project Page

This page is part of an Educational Project by students of LIUC, Italy, with a course page at: [1]https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/LIUC_-_Universit%C3%A0_Cattaneo/Digital_Technology_(October_-_December,_2024) . The users of the group are new to the Wikipedia platform, have completed mandatory Training for Students, and are learning to edit following Wikipedia rules. They are open to any advice on improvements of the page in conformity to Wikipedia requirements and guidelines, and any help useful for the enhancement of the page will be gladly accepted. The student Usernames are:

• Ludusludii
• CuraLiuc5
• LIUCDigitalMaster33
• DodoneAms
• Gianky Gio
• Burghermaker

Issues or questions can be referred direct to the users or to their tutor @Limelightangel Limelightangel (talk) 14:02, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Feedback on draft 1/11/24

@Ludusludii, CuraLiuc5, LIUCDigitalMaster33, DodoneAms, Gianky Gio, and Burghermaker:

• note the guidelines and good practice on lead (introductory) section and look at good practice other pages. See: Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section. Use this to develop this section. See also Wikipedia:Writing_better_articles#Lead_section.
• Style: Note the guidelines on style, including bias, subjectivity, sources, e.g. 'vast audience';'to significantly influence';'to have great success', etc. See: Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Vocabulary
• note, understand and avoid overlinking e.g. enthusiasts, London, exhibitions, etc. See Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Linking
• note the addition of ref. 3, which has been reused using the 'named reference' tool in the toolbox menu to create a refname tag to permit reuse of the same source with only 1 final reference for it. See: Help:Referencing_for_beginners

Limelightangel (talk) 15:59, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

I will definetely try to fix the mistakes you have mentioned. Thank you @Limelightangel for the feedback. LIUCDigitalMaster33 (talk) 16:45, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

New sections

I recently added a sub-section called "education" in the section "personal life". I'm planning to add a section about Rylands' career. If you have some ideas feel free to share them. LIUCDigitalMaster33 (talk) 13:25, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Feedback on draft 06/11/24

@Ludusludii, CuraLiuc5, LIUCDigitalMaster33, DodoneAms, Gianky Gio, and Burghermaker:

• Pay attention to the division of the sections/chapters (e.g., the title of the first chapter is missing).
• Organization of the page: for effective organization in line with Wikipedia standards of the chosen topic, it is good to take cues from other pages dealing with the same topic.
• Bibliographic references must be written correctly and in line with standards. Use the correct reference format for all sources.
  • source:https://books.google.it/books?id=EZxUDwAAQBAJ&lpg=PP1&ots=1xSx2018fo&dq=contemporary%20vocal%20technique&lr&hl=es&pg=PP3#v=onepage&q=contemporary%20vocal%20technique&f=false
  • source: https://singingcarrots.com/blog/contemporary-vocal-techniques-heavy-modal-twang-belting
  • source: Gaps between classical and contemporary technique. Winnie, B. J. (2017). Bridging the gap between classical and contemporary vocal technique: implications for the choral rehearsal. Voice and Speech Review, 11(1), 55–71. https://doi.org/10.1080/23268263.2017.1370803

Greentree97 (talk) 12:03, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you @Greentree97 for the feedback. I will keep your advice in mind for future edits. LIUCDigitalMaster33 (talk) 17:56, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you @Greentree97 for the feedback. Ludusludii (talk) 15:55, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

New draft page edits 11/11/2024

Hello, Ludusludii, CuraLiuc5, LIUCDigitalMaster33, DodoneAms and Gianky Gio

I have made corrections regarding useless puffery, over and/or repetitive linking, subjective remarks and spelling mistakes. Burghermaker (talk) 12:20, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the feedback DodoneAms (talk) 12:22, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you @Burghermaker, you did a great job. However, I added back a couple of links you have removed because I believe that they are necessary for readers to have a deeper understanding of the text (e.g. Guggenheim Foundation and University of Cambridge). You did an impeccable job with removing subjective remarks and spelling mistakes. Let me know if you have any doubts on my corrections. LIUCDigitalMaster33 (talk) 18:10, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello, I do agree that linking the Guggenheim Foundation is fundamental for this page, but we should also take into account the fact that linking the same thing twice is useless, as the professor had said in our previous meeting. Burghermaker (talk) 14:48, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you Gianky Gio (talk) 09:51, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Expanding the section "Publications"

I think that the section "Publications" can be expanded by creating a sub-section for every publication with a short summary of the content. This would benefit potential new readers by giving them more information about the genre and topic of the publications. Once again, let me know if you have any doubts and if you believe this could be a good idea... LIUCDigitalMaster33 (talk) 12:22, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Good idea - not too much, but you can say when it was published, where, and what the Rylands content was. Limelightangel (talk) 12:35, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

good idea, i'll do some now CuraLiuc5 (talk) 13:19, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

I completely agree, great idea. Burghermaker (talk) 14:49, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

I will finish adding the paragraphs to the draft page publication section tomorrow before the video lesson.

Feedback on draft 13/11/24

@Ludusludii, CuraLiuc5, LIUCDigitalMaster33, DodoneAms, Gianky Gio, and Burghermaker:

• See Also's: not all these are appropriate for this section, and also duplicate links in the page. At least 3 should be removed. See Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Layout#"See_also"_section for guidance.
• External links section: See Wikipedia:external links and understand what goes here as opposed to reference links
• Categories: Need adding prior to submission. See Help:categories
• Lead section: Note the guidelines and good practice on lead (introductory) section and look at good practice other pages. See: Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section. Use this to develop this section. See also Wikipedia:Writing_better_articles#Lead_section. Some of this section is irrelevant to a lead section and should be included in relevant sections. The lead section needs to objectively establish topic notability and summarize the topic succinctly, without detail covered later.
• Style: Note the guidelines on style, including bias, subjectivity, sources, e.g. 'major achievements';'in order to spread his knowledge of modern art to new generations of artists around the globe'; etc. See: Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Vocabulary
• structure: consider moving or restructuring personal life section. If retained it should be should come towards the end of the page. Another approach is to incorporate the content in to a section on Life. Have a look at similar pages e.g. Tony Blair, where there is a long chronological section on Life with sub-sections, then a final section on Personal Life. Other pages do it differently e.g. Donald Trump.
• images:
  • the Infobox needs a portrait style image
  • more images are needed for the relevant text sections. As an example, the publications sectiom could include an image of one of the publications, and/or Rylands at a book launch or similar, etc.

Limelightangel (talk) 13:10, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the feedback CuraLiuc5 (talk) 13:18, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

noted, thank you for the feedback. I fixed links and corrected subjectivity as our professors suggested. Main work on style and correcting grammar. After these edits I worked on the publications subsection. Burghermaker (talk) 14:51, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the feedback DodoneAms (talk) 17:27, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. Will definetely try to fix the mistakes you have mentioned. LIUCDigitalMaster33 (talk) 18:25, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

thanks for the feedback Gianky Gio (talk) 12:03, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the feedback Ludusludii (talk) 09:18, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

New sub-sections and images

I recently divided the section "Personal Life" and "In Popular Culture" into sub-sections, but they still need more information. If you find any feel free to add... Regarding uncopyrighted images, I tried to search for some on the web, but all I could find was the image that is already in the draft. Like @CuraLiuc5 suggested, we should text to the owners of copyrighted images and ask if they would give us the permission to use them. I suggest we all write to at least a couple of owners so that we maximise the possibility of getting a response and maybe even some permissions. LIUCDigitalMaster33 (talk) 18:52, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

I already contacted the museum, Rylands himself and a couple of photographer but i didnt get much. Anyway, good idea. CuraLiuc5 (talk) 18:54, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Personal Life

I added important information in different stages of his life, such as Early life or Life in VeniceDodoneAms (talk) 15:43, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Feedback on draft 20/11/24

@Ludusludii, CuraLiuc5, LIUCDigitalMaster33, DodoneAms, Gianky Gio, and Burghermaker:

• External links section: use the correct format for these, nor urls. See Wikipedia:external links
• grammar: 'provide view of the Venetian life'; 'to present day '; 'Catalog based on'; 'His life in Palm Beach marks a chapter after his tenure in Venice, bringing his expertise and experience.'; etc.
• style: See: Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Vocabulary
  • redundant words: 'also awarded'; 'also linked'; 'also reflects'; 'vast variety '; 'In addition to'(at least twice); 'contains more or less 300 pieces'; 'However, '; etc.
  • subjectivity, opinion and bias, often imported from sources: 'underscoring the challenges and complexities faced by those committed to preserving Venice’s cultural heritage'; 'characters that embody the spirit of this city such as'; ' from the city's ancient palazzos '; 'creating a portrayal that resonates with both locals and visitors alike.'; 'The author uses her insight into Venetian culture to craft'; 'represent the influential power of art across history.'; 'serves as a guide to exploring a vast number of'; 'These essays offer insights into'; 'helping readers understand the evolution and significance of Venetian art.'; 'This makes it an available resource for anyone interested in'; ' comprehensive'; 'showcased a wide range '; 'highlighting his unique contributions '; 'provided a richer context and deeper understanding of'; 'offering valuable insights'; 'highlights Davis's ability'; 'offers visitors a deep dive into'; 'a comprehensive exploration'; 'It delves into'; 'a throwback to'; 'offering an exploration'; 'captures Afro's ability to '; 'solidifying his legacy as a pivotal innovator'; 'The catalog is essential for anyone interested in'; 'gained motion after '; 'a significant departure'; 'The book explores'; 'It delves into'; 'offering insights into the dynamics'; 'making it a resource on'; 'chronicles the work'; 'It provides a look at'; 'The publication serves as a reference for art historians, '; 'engage in-depth'; etc. These need to be rewritten or removed.
• duplicate content: 'position of president at The Society of the Four Arts,' vs. 'president of the Society of the Four Arts' vs. 'as chief executive officer and president of the Society of the Four Arts.'; 'Philip Rylands (born in London, December 29, 1950)' vs. 'hilip Rylands was born in London, United Kingdom, on the 29th of December 1950'; etc.
• Lead section: Note the guidelines and good practice on lead (introductory) section and look at good practice other pages. See: Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section. Use this to develop this section. See also Wikipedia:Writing_better_articles#Lead_section. Some of this section is irrelevant to a lead section and should be included in relevant sections.
• images: needs more; the Infobox needs a portrait style image

Limelightangel (talk) 19:51, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback, we will definitely look into and edit these errors. Ludusludii (talk) 14:23, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you @Limelightangel for the feedback! We will try to solve the problems you have mentioned. Regarding images, I tried to contact a few photographers and some of them gave me permission to use their content, however, I still need to convince them in sending a declaration of consent to permissions-commons@wikimedia.org LIUCDigitalMaster33 (talk) 17:32, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Feedback on draft 26/11/24

@Ludusludii, CuraLiuc5, LIUCDigitalMaster33, DodoneAms, Gianky Gio, and Burghermaker:

• External links section:
  • Ensure proper formatting for external links, avoiding plain URLs. Refer to Wikipedia:external links.
• Grammar:
  • Correct phrases such as:
    • "provide view of the Venetian life" → "provides a view of Venetian life".
    • "Catalog based on" → Avoid vague wording; rephrase or elaborate.
    • "Living in Florida offered to Rylands a change of pace" → "Living in Florida provided Rylands with a change of pace".
    • "contains more or less 300 pieces" → Consider replacing "more or less" with "approximately".
• Style:
  • Use consistent language and terminology. See: Wikipedia:Manual of Style.
  • Avoid promotional or opinionated language, such as:
    • "highlighting his unique contributions".
    • "solidifying his legacy as a pivotal innovator".
    • "captures Afro's ability to convey emotion".

I have deleted/corrected several of these but the article needs checking and the mistakes not repeated Limelightangel (talk) 21:29, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• Redundant words:
  • Examples to simplify:
    • "also awarded"; "also linked"; "also reflects" – streamline where possible.
    • "vast variety" → "variety".
    • "making it a resource for anyone interested in" → Avoid repetition of phrases like this across sections.
    • "This makes it an available resource for anyone interested in..." → Simplify.
• Subjectivity, opinion, and bias:
  • Rewrite or omit subjective phrases such as:
    • "characters that embody the spirit of this city".
    • "underscoring the challenges and complexities faced by those committed to preserving Venice’s cultural heritage".
    • "offering insights into the dynamics of international art exhibitions".

I have deleted/corrected several of these but the article needs checking and the mistakes not repeated Limelightangel (talk) 21:29, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the feed back, I will be looking over these things ASAP. Burghermaker (talk) 13:40, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

• Duplicate content:
  • Ensure consistency and avoid repetition:
    • "Philip Rylands (born in London, December 29, 1950)" vs. "Philip Rylands was born in London, United Kingdom, on the 29th of December 1950".
    • "position of president at The Society of the Four Arts" vs. "president of the Society of the Four Arts" vs. "chief executive officer and president of the Society of the Four Arts".
• Lead section:
  • Revise according to Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section:
    • Summarize the article's key points succinctly.
    • Avoid overly detailed or irrelevant content in the lead (e.g., specifics about his publications or awards).

I have tried to improve the lead section by removing detail/minor repetions Limelightangel (talk) 21:29, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• Images:
  • Consider adding more relevant images, including a portrait-style photo for the Infobox.
  • Ensure images are properly captioned and attributed.
• Citations and references:
  • Ensure all claims are backed by reliable sources.
  • Avoid over-reliance on the Peggy Guggenheim Collection website or similar sources directly affiliated with the subject.
  • Format citations uniformly and according to Help:Referencing_for_beginners.

Greentree97 (talk) 13:51, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the feedback, will try to adjust subjectivity tomorrow. About the images, we're having some copyright problems but will be fixed by next week. CuraLiuc5 (talk) 21:19, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the feedback Ludusludii (talk) 20:53, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the feedback @Greentree97, I will try to fix some of the problems you have mentioned. Like @CuraLiuc5 said, we are currently having some problems with getting copyright free images, however, we are working on this and during the past week I managed to get one photographer to donate his image. I'm trying to convince other photographers but most of them have denied us permission to use their works. LIUCDigitalMaster33 (talk) 14:43, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Publications section update

I was thinking about making a bullet list of the publications just to make it seem a little more dinamic and easy to read, let me know. CuraLiuc5 (talk) 21:20, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Could turn out to be a great idea! If it doesn't look as good as expected there is always the possibilty to undo the edits, so I don't see any problem with it. LIUCDigitalMaster33 (talk) 14:47, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

thank you CuraLiuc5 (talk) 14:54, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Great idea Burghermaker (talk) 13:40, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Lead section

I was thinking of summarizing the introduction with only key points, a possible result could be:

Philip Rylands is an art historian, critic, and museum director known for his contributions to contemporary art. He served as the director of the Peggy Guggenheim Collection in Venice from 2000 to 2009, where he expanded the museum's programs, curated exhibitions, and developed educational initiatives like the Peggy Guggenheim Internship Program. He later became the director of the Guggenheim Foundation in Italy and CEO of The Society of the Four Arts in Palm Beach. Rylands has held academic positions in art history in several universities and has authored publications on different aspects of art criticism and its development in history. Now retired, he still engages in organizing lectures and periodic exhibitions for students Ludusludii (talk) 21:20, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Great idea. This way the lead section definetely looks much more dynamic. LIUCDigitalMaster33 (talk) 14:49, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

good idea. CuraLiuc5 (talk) 14:54, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Great idea, I completely agree. Burghermaker (talk) 14:02, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Fixing mistakes

The article is almost done when it comes to the volume of content, however, there still are some major mistakes that must be fixed before submitting the draft for review... In one week or so the article should be completed and I've seen that many of you already started fixing the mistakes mentioned in the recent feedbacks. I will try to fix some of them as well, and I believe that during this next couple of weeks we should be focusing mostly on this. If you want to add new content you are welcome, but remember that the priority should be to prepare the draft for submission by fixing grammar, style and structure. Let me know what you think about this and if you believe that there still are some details that should be mentioned. LIUCDigitalMaster33 (talk) 15:08, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

I am checking now. Burghermaker (talk) 13:41, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Page review 03/12/2024

Hello everyone, I think we have and are still doing a great job. The only part that is lacking is the images which hopefully we will have up soon, but I think we are doing great on the other aspects of the page, do you agree? I have made a few minor edits but nothing too major, other than the content I think the format looks good. I have a question when talking about the Guggenheim Collection Internship Program the word inexperienced is used when mentioning the interns, I think it can be considered subjective but didn't want to change it without asking. Burghermaker (talk) 14:01, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

I completely agree, the article is basically ready for submission, everyone did a great job! Regarding your question, I believe that the goal of an internship should be to acquire practical experience, therefore the vast majority of times it is safe to consider an intern "inexperienced", however, I see what you are trying to say, and I believe that better wording could be used in that sentence. Feel free to edit if you find a better way to structure that sub-section. Thank you for asking and good luck with your editing! LIUCDigitalMaster33 (talk) 15:58, 6 December 2024 (UTC)