Category talk:Wikipedians looking for help

Helpful userboxes for monitoring this category and concept include:

Code

Result

This user helps Wikipedians by monitoring the {{helpme}} page.

Usage

This user helps Wikipedians by monitoring #wikipedia-en-help.

Usage

Note that the below userbox has a couple possible parameters and full documentation can be found on the userbox's page.

Wikipedians looking for help likes to help
people who cry {{Help me}}

Usage

Wikipedians looking for help likes to help
those needing {{Admin help}}

Usage

Users rarely listed, IRC chan

I check this page maybe twice per "wikipedia session" which is just about every day and have have only once seen a user listed as requesting help. Unless I am the butt of a cosmic statistics joke, there must be some reason why the the message to add {{help me}} in many templates does not seem to garner much response.--Fuhghettaboutit 02:14, 18 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

People tend to want to be "independent". I used it once when I was new (a few weeks ago) for some help with Parserfunctions, but after that you tend to be able to figure out everything on your own by browsing around. Other than that people tend to send more personal messages thinking that they get answered faster.--SomeStranger^(t|c) 02:29, 18 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- The reason why Fuhghettaboutit has not seen many is not because people aren't using {helpme}, it's because we answer them too efficiently (not a bad thing). There have been over 1000 helpme's this year (it started in late January). Yesterday there were 12 {helpme}'s, during a week day I would say 20 is the average per day. The overall response time is 15 minutes, although with the extra helpers these days it's more like 5 minutes. This efficiency is achieved due to a bot checking the category and reporting it to an IRC channel, come and check it out :-) (Join #wikipedia-bootcamp on freenode or use the Web-based client)--Commander Keane 02:50, 18 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  - Thanks for the reply. I attempted, but got a runtime error. I downloaded icechat a few weeks ago, but I'm not sure I have enough desire to try to figure out what's wrong. Thanks for solving the mystery. And no, it's not a bad thing:-)--Fuhghettaboutit 03:20, 18 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I suggested on the welcome template's talk page that we say something like "10 minutes" instead of "shortly" to inspire new users to ask for help. Feel free to add input. AdamBiswanger1 00:14, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Better make it something like 15 minutes, as Commander Keane said is the response time. It would be better to have a little extra time just in case something requires a long reply or isn't that easy to explain. Jfing ers88 12:55, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Might also like to ask them not to replace it when it is removed. I remove it in my first edit so noone bothers answering a question I am already answering and then answer the question myself with the second edit. Viridae ^Talk 13:31, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

15 minutes is fine. But one might be able to ask "how may I help you?" and remove the tag within 15 seconds, so as long as you're fast it should be OK. Also, other editors, seing the "how may I help you?" should know that the case is taken. AdamBiswanger1 13:43, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Since I'm on at an odd timezone, I have actually seen helpmes (usually ones that I'm not comfortable handling) that stay up for quite a while, since it's a lot slower at night time. So, while overall that might be a good idea, I think some sort of disclaimer like "during slow hours, responses might take a bit longer, please be patient and we'll get back to you as soon as possible" for those instances. Other than that, I agree, it would have made me more likely to use it, and I think it would do well. —Keakealani •Poke Me•contribs• 01:47, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I thought about that, but I think it's better to take a risk, and brevity is everything. Fine print might just make the template too long and make many people less likely to read it. AdamBiswanger1 18:29, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Are people other than admins allowed to answer these calls for help, if we ever see them? 'Cause I am not an admin.--Ch ili 14 21:17, 13 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone can answer questions. You do not need to be an administrator. Besides the help desk there's also the New Contributors' help page and the Reference Desk. Have at it!--Fuhghettaboutit 21:32, 13 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Script

If anyone wants help answering CAT:HELP requests more quickly, I've written a script that can add immediate-request categories to your watchlist (User:ais523/catwatch.js). --ais523 15:33, 15 November 2006 (U T C)

The bootcamp channel on IRC also monitors this category. - Che Nuevara 21:49, 15 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

ais523, you are a life-saver. My computer's bamjaxed, won't let me enter IRC, so your script has helped me no end! Queenie ^Talk 18:39, 1 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

ditto to that, I reckon this has to be best scripts out there. It should be compulsory for every admin at least, I can know about tagged attack pages or unblock requests immensely fast--Jac16888 ^Talk 18:56, 1 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

... Ur, am I doing something wrong? It is supposed to come up on the watchlist, right? Queenie 18:59, 1 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but it can be hard to set up, sometimes. Make sure you follow the instructions, and that you bypass your cache after installing the script and after setting up the category watchlist. On Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 (and possibly 8, I haven't tested), sometimes you need to delete your temporary internet files as well to get it working; I'm not entirely sure why, though. --ais523 19:04, 1 March 2009 (U T C)

It still doesn't work.. Queenie 19:09, 1 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Name Change?

I think we should rename this "Wikipedian's requesting help" as it sounds more suitable and they aren't really "looking for help" they are requesting help.

Give me your views!

Regards

Dep. Garcia ^{(Talk to Me)} 19:05, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Can you elaborate on the difference between these two terms? To me, they mean basically the same thing. —P^urple ^RA^IN 20:51, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to me that a request is a single act where one states a need for help and that's it. Looking involves an active pursuit of something such as searching for answers rather than posting a query, which in this case perhaps is not true. In reality, I don't think the minor difference in meaning is significant. What is important, is will the name change affect the IRC channel monitoring or the JavaScript tool to monitor the category? Such a small benefit from a change like this may cause more trouble than it is worth. BigNate37_(T) 21:28, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Suppose, it would be too much trouble for some unlucky fella. Dep. Garcia ^{(Talk) (Help Desk)} 19:21, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry to be pedantic, but the plural of 'wikipedian' is 'wikipedians', without the apostrophe. Hut 8.5 12:13, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It might be a strange reason, but I like the name-change proposal, because it's more encyclopedic in tone...just a thought...Nina Odell 16:21, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I would be against it for the same reason: "looking for help" sounds more friendly. This is not a section of the encyclopedia, its more a community section, and should sound inviting for users (many of them new) looking for help from other wikipedians. --sony-youth^talk 16:28, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't expect most new users would notice that their talk page is being categorised when they use {{helpme}} anyway, so that point may be moot. BigNate37_(T) 16:41, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You're right - the main thing is to help the folks. That's why I have this page on my watchlist in the first place. I just wish more editors actually believed the helpme template in the first place and actually used it. Suggestions?Nina Odell 17:20, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

How about Wikipedians seeking help as opposed to Wikipedians requesting help and Wikipedians looking for help.

Views? Let me hear (read) them.

Dep. Garcia ( Talk | Help Desk | Complaints ) 17:15, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent! Let's do it! Nina Odell 17:24, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That works. I'll add it at CfD is there's no objections. --Wizardman 18:14, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Once again, those who wish to rename this page should answer the question: will the name change affect the IRC channel monitoring or the JavaScript tool to monitor the category? Changing the name from a good one to an arguably slightly better one is a small benefit and may cause more trouble than it is worth. Has anyone looked into this yet? BigNate37_(T) 18:16, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, there aren't too many risks associated. The category tracker could be fixed no problem, and IRC channel monitoring isn't that big of a problem. This is more a low-risk low-reward kind of deal as I see it.--Wizardman 18:19, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have no objections, so the CfD can continue! Dep. Garcia ( Talk | Help Desk | Complaints ) 18:33, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Alright. I couldn't think of a real good reason to put (which we'll need if we want it to succeed), so whoever's got a good reason for the ranaming can add this to CfD. --Wizardman 18:35, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, as long as someone who is aware of what goes on with the monitoring says it isn't a big deal, I've got no objections. BigNate37_(T) 19:30, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I could correct the JavaScript tool after a rename in one edit. I suspect it would be similarly easy with the IRC bot. --ais523 09:29, 18 January 2007 (U T C)

...but each other user would have to correct it separately, and there would be caching problems... maybe it wouldn't be that easy, especially for IE7 users (for who I haven't yet found a simple way of bypassing the category-watch cache other than deleting all the temporary internet files.) --ais523 16:20, 23 October 2007 (U T C)

Reason: The renaming of this category would make the encyclopedia help system more professional and seeking is shorter than looking for.

If any can come up with a better reason than mine, please do so. Dep. Garcia ( Talk | Help Desk | Complaints ) 18:43, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose: The page is not part of the encyclopedia, it does not need encyclopediac tone. Whether the status quo or one of the suggestions is more "professional" depends on what kind of service is being offered and who our customers are. "Seeking", "Requesting" and "Looking for" are synonyms, the only difference is in tone. "Looking for" is the simplest and most informal, and so the most friendly, open and welcoming. Is this not the kind of 'professional service' we want to offer? Don't you think our 'customers' deserve this rather than staid formally?

As for "seeking" or "requesting" being "shorter" - please, we're talking about whether a sentence should be three or four words in length! If by brevity we are seeking clarity, a simple phrasal verb such as "looking for" does a lot more than precise verbs such as the ones proposed. Definitions are below (fom the NOAD);

Look for: attempt to find

Request: an act of asking politely or formally for something

Seek: attempt or desire to obtain or achieve

--sony-youth^talk 22:42, 10 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am not going to give a Support or Oppose 'vote' on this, I think the name of it is fine either way. Looking for help does sound a bit more like they're not going to find the help, like Sony-youth says above, you are attempting to find. You will find it, 100% of these questions get answered if they are legitimate requests. — jacĸrм (talk) 04:54, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I created a userbox

For all those who monitor this category, here's a userbox:

Code

Result

|{{User:UBX/helpme}}

This user helps Wikipedians by monitoring the {{helpme}} page.

Usage

|{{Template:User Helper}}

This user helps Wikipedians by monitoring #wikipedia-en-help.

Usage

Hope you like. RyanLupin (^talk/_contribs) 11:18, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I will go and add it to my userbox page now :P Tiddly-Tom 11:35, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I added one for those who use IRC to monitor. Lara❤Love 17:59, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Can anyone elaborate on what IRC is? Whenever I click on an IRC link, my Firefox browser decides to digitally constipate. RyanLupin (^talk/_contribs) 19:09, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia itself has an article on it: Internet Relay Chat. It's a chatroom system, basically, and you'll need some sort of client software installed on your machine, to access it. --McGeddon 19:33, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you download Chatzilla, you can load IRC through FireFox. Lara❤Love 15:58, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah thanks for the tips guys, I downloaded xChat last night and had a fiddle, now all IRC links work! :) Ryan (^talk/_contribs) 16:04, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Categorize further

Has anyone considered breaking this down into more specialized areas? For example,

Wikipedians looking for help with images
Wikipedians looking for help with userpages
Wikipedians looking for help with editing
Wikipedians looking for help dealing with other editors
Wikipedians looking for help finding the "any key"
etc etc etc

One thing I find frustrating is when someone asks a specialized question that sits for 24 hours or more. I was thinking if a user marked their request with a specific type of question, it could be listed in this category and the specialized category. That way the irc channel would still see it in this category. Thoughts?--12 Noon ^2¢ 23:14, 12 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Probably a bad idea, simply for usability reasons for the new users. Telling them to type {{helpme}} on their user talk page and ask a question is simple enough, but new users still often get it wrong (placing it on the wrong page, for instance, or not asking a question), and anything that makes it harder to use is a bad idea. (This is also one reason why the {{helpme}} template has some unlikely-looking redirects.) --ais523 09:13, 13 December 2007 (U T C)

I thought about that, but I have seen several established users ask more specialized questions who could benefit from it. It would be an optional parameter, like filling in the category on an AfD nom, but if it was left blank then it would automatically default to no other category.

For example, if someone typed {{helpme|image}} it would be categorized here and in "Wikipedians looking for help with images". But if someone typed {{helpme}}, as is done now, nothing would be affected and it would still be categorized as is currently done. Just a thought. Regards.--12 Noon ^2¢ 16:00, 13 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

We could always point them out to where they could find information they need (ex. Wikipedia:Help desk).--Sunny910910 ^{(talk|Contributions|Guest)} 00:21, 20 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Helpers Space

I use the help service-thing often, and I have a suggestion. Could a little space be added somewhere to say if anybody is actively helping out at that time - it is quite annoying when I'm waiting for your questions to be answered, and I wonder whether anyone is available or not. Thanks! TheMoridian 09:32, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think this is possible based on the manner in which questions are found and answered. This is "just" a category page, which the helpme template places a user into when they post that template. There is no organized staging area from which coordinated helpers await slots to answer questions. Another words, there is nothing anyone does that makes them active or not that we could flag to make your request possible. Instead, users find their way here to check whether any requests are pending by various methids and help or not, based on their own lights. Some users simply stop by the attached page every so often to check if it populated and if it's a question they can answer. Others have a script which makes the category pop up on their watchlist, and others are alerted through an IRC feed of new questions.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 12:56, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The only way you could do that would be to list ALL the helpers, then next to each helper have some sort of indicator to tell whether they are "online". I'm not sure if Wikipedia has any way to indicate whether a user is online. Anyone? Bob the Wikipedian, the Tree of Life WikiDragon (talk) 16:55, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I recently found a userbox which claims to say when the user is online, or when they were last on. Go to my workdesk to see it. Perhaps this could be used in some way? TheMoridian 14:15, 23 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See User:StatusBot, though it's been down for a while and has been replaced several times.--Sunny910910 ^{(talk|Contributions|Guest)} 05:22, 4 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I've been working on something like that. The project isn't quite done, but I've done a lot of work on it and it's pretty good so far. It can be found at Wikipedia:Highly Active Users. Useight (talk) 05:57, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Looking good! I've added myself in, since I consider myself overly active and also capable of assisting others in a few areas, such as copyright, vandalism, and article creation/editing. As someone who requests help frequently myself (for proper coding help), I know this feature will be valuable when it is finished. Thanks for your hard work, Useight! Bob the Wikipedian (talk) 05:28, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

[irc://irc.freenode.net/wikipedia-en-help #wikipedia-en-help]

The link shown above doesn't work when I click on it. It does the same when i'm using other Computers. Therefore If it is useless to others, it needs to be fixed or deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Condalence (talk • contribs) 02:17, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It works fine. Do you have access to IRC? If not the link will not work. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 03:17, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's odd, but the link above does not work for me. Yet when I click this link it works fine. Also, you need to install Java. Queenie 16:45, 11 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Try this link: #wikipedia-en-help. (By the way, the link above doesn't work because it was nowiki-ed.) —MC10 (T•C•GB•L) 18:02, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

i need help

ok. i need help. here is my conundrum: I found the object relations page and it was a little sparse, so i added to it. then i found there were these little stub pages out there, just hanging, on aspects of the theory. I think the stub pages should be merged with the sub sections on the object relations theory page. these stubby parts relate to the sub sections created on the main page for the theory. the stub pages are: depressive position and Paranoid-schizoid position. i've tried reading the help pages to figure out how to do this, but im really only finding info on creating redirects, and the content is different on these two, so the content from the stubs should probably be merged into the (overly technical) stuff at the main theory page on object relations.

the second part of my question is the sub sections on the main page, are they live links? if i put brackets around the words they are titled, will it direct there? it doesnt seem to. if not, can that be possible, and what is that called? how do i look it up so i can make it so?

thanks so much. Majicshrink (talk) 17:01, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You might have already got an answer on your talkpage, but in any case you might want to read WP:MERGE, the process is rather simple, straight-forward and fast. Discussing it first is what you can do for now, until consensus is established.

I didn't quite get the second question, but you can link to different sub sections on the main page, e.g. for the "Did you know?" section, you can use the link Template:Did_you_know. I hope that was your question... :S

Cheers mate!

Λuα ^{(Operibus anteire)} 19:16, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the merge info. super helpful and exactly what i was asking.

2nd question is: how do i create a hyper link to the subsection in a given article? (and, what is that called?)

best, Majicshrink (talk) 20:10, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

For a wikilink, you would type the name of the page in double brackets, followed by a number sign and then the name of a subsection. For example [[Wikipedia:Verifiability#Non-English sources]] results in Wikipedia:Verifiability#Non-English sources, which goes to the subsection of the page. The URL for that is easy, it's the same text format with the site URL prefixed, but with all spaces replaced by underscores ("_"s) thus: http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability#Non-English_sources is the link. By the way, further questions should probably be asked at the help desk, or you can use this category by placing the template {{helpme}} on your talk page. This is actually a page intended for discussion of the associated category page, and not an actual help forum itself. Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 23:22, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with Fuhghettaboutit on all accounts. I just want to add that the Redirect will look something like this:
#REDIRECT [[object_relations_theory#Paranoid-schizoid_position]]

Cheers mate!

Λuα ^{(Operibus anteire)} 09:28, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Instructions for new volunteers

Hi! I've just found this area (and I've been here for what, 3 years now and a mop wielder for 3 months? I should explore more), and I thought I should try and help out too. Only thing is, I can't find any instructions/guidelines as to what is usually done. For example - do you delete the helpme tag once you've helped out? Do you mark the page as "being helped" whilst you help out so that others don't waste their time duplicating the aid? In short - is there an instructions page somewhere? If so, could you make the link to it a bit more obvious, as I can't find it! (I probably just need glasses) Thanks, StephenBuxton (talk) 16:08, 9 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(answered on user talk page also) I do not think there are any directions for new helpers. Most helpers hang out on irc. If someone places the {{helpme}} tag on their talk page it notifies the irc group. To disable the tag you change it to {{tnull|helpme}}. For the most part the first one to help changes the tag so that the bot that notifies the IRC group does not keep notifying every minute or so. If it is a confusing question or an issue that requires more people some editors leave the tag up while they try to resolve the question. Come over to the IRC page. There are great people there that will help you get started (usually... some times it is dead in there). Gtstricky^{Talk or C} 14:23, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers for that. Internet restrictions prevent me from logging into that area whilst at work, but I'll check it out from home. StephenBuxton (talk) 11:34, 11 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There are also some regulars, such as myself, who wouldn't know an irc if it hit them in their head. I keep abreast of the category using User:Ais523/catwatch.js. You might find Wikipedia:Help desk/How to answer a useful general resource as well as {{help desk templates}} (included on that page) of interest. Note also the following handy template, tailored to this category: {{Helpme-nq}}. Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 18:56, 1 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Lupin

any of you folks familiar with Lupin? I'm wanting to tweak the spell check part so that it shows the actual diff prior to actually changing the word (fixes the spelling). I tried User:Ioeth (or something like that a while back, but he doesn't seem to be around a whole lot these days. I tried the help desk. I tried various links in WP:Lupin - just haven't found anyone who can help. The reason I want to show the "diff" first - is so I don't change the spelling in a quote, or reference, or a place where it's actually out of context and acceptable as is. Thanks — Ched ~ ^(yes?) 18:41, 11 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ched, you should ask at User talk:Lupin. He developed the whole thing and is sure to know more about it than anyone else ;D Queenie 20:02, 31 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yea, I did that a while back - but he/she hasn't been around since toward the end of last year. I tried Ioeth too, but his edits have been sporadic (at least they were back in late Jan.) I've asked a bunch of places, and I might just have to learn the lingo and reprogram it myself if I want to make any changes. Oh well, I do appreciate you dropping me a reply Queenie, very nice of you - Thank You. — Ched ~ ^(yes?)/_© 21:04, 31 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Refresh button

The refresh button looks really cool. How do I add I to my talk and user page. Also how do I get a cool signature.--20thtryer (talk) 13:24, 28 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Which refresh button are you referring to? WP:CUSTOMSIG shows how to go about customising your signature. Bear in mind that complicated (or over-the-top) signatures are discouraged because they put lots of markup into the edit window and makes editing and reading the markup difficult. matt (talk) 13:44, 28 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I meant the "update this page" button. Is this button and are the contents of this page cc.--20^thtryer talk 15:53, 29 March 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 20thtryer (talk • contribs) [reply]

You mean the {{purge button}} template? The file used in it, Crystal 128 reload.png, is licensed as free software under GNU LGPL (version 2.1 or later). A vector version of this image is available at File:Crystal_128_reload.svg. :-) benzband (talk) 16:24, 29 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Workflow

Currently a query goes through {{helpme}} to {{helpme-helped}}, optionally through {{helpme-working}}.

"I am looking for help! Ask your question below. You can also look at Help Contents, ask at the Help desk or the Teahouse, or check the FAQ. Users who monitor the category Wikipedians looking for help and those on the #wikipedia-en-help IRC channel have been alerted and will assist you shortly. Note that you can also receive live Wikipedia-related help there; click here to connect. You'll be receiving help soon so don't worry. (Note to helpers: Once you have offered help, please nullify the template using {{tl}} or similar, replace with {{Help me-helped}}, or where {{Help me}} was used, use {{tlp}}/{{tnull}})"
(Optional.) "We're working on it! A helper (or group of helpers) is working on your question, and should have an answer as soon as possible. If you can, join #wikipedia-en-help, the Wikipedia IRC help channel to get real-time assistance, and/or provide us with more information so we can better assist you."
"This help request has been answered. If you need more help, place a new {{help me}} request on this page followed by your questions, contact the responding user(s) directly on their user talk page, or consider visiting the Teahouse."

I would like to propose two things, here. Gryllida 10:40, 3 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Workflow change

Add a new {{helpme-pending}} template, for when helper asked for additional information and is waiting for user reply. Gryllida 10:40, 3 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support

Oppose

I don't see a need for this. Most helpers watch pages of helpees for awhile after the fact, and even if they don't the "-helped" template says they can always use {{Help me}} again if they have another question. Technical 13 (talk) 12:24, 3 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Templates change

Look at how n:Template:Developing works, and add buttons users to toggle helpme requests state using JS rather than manual source edit. Gryllida 10:40, 3 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support

Oppose

Due to the fact that it would require an "on by default" gadget to accomplish this, I think this is a solution looking for a problem that currently doesn't exist. On that note, I have been working on a script for helpers to make it easier to manage template states and respond/help users with questions. Technical 13 (talk) 12:24, 3 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I apologise for not adding this page to watchlist in time, and the delay in replying because of that. What "on by default" gadget does the template I linked require? Gryllida (talk) 12:48, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- The template you linked doesn't "do it for you"... The code for the button <span id="develop_to_review_link">[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}|action=edit}} '''submit for review''']</span> is simply a link to the edit page. The project I'm working on (I actually started coding and got the first part done yesterday), will allow you to click a link, "maybe" fill in a few boxes or select options in a popup, and the page will reload and it will be done. No edit pages, little code if any, little messing around waiting for multiple page loads, bam! done. Technical 13 (talk) 13:17, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it does it for you. Try it on a test page. Gryllida (talk) 23:34, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As mentioned, the template does it for you. Please provide insight into how it works and why utilising same way of work here is undesirable (since it seems that you are opposing in the first place and making your own tools to replace whatever the template I linked uses). Gryllida (talk) 03:34, 16 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Does your solution need a user-script installed (copy-pasted to a relevant page, or ticked in gadgets)? Gryllida (talk) 23:54, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, and I believe that is the best way to have it. It might be confusing to some new editors to see the tools used to answer and close their request. I have also thought about the option where it could be an on-by-default gadget that would only show the tools if certain criteria are met, but I've still not convinced myself that is a good idea. Technical 13 (talk) 01:04, 16 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

I read several messages. I understood none of them. Specific questions follow.

On by default

A new on by default gadget is a bad idea. This point is something I can see merit in, while not to the point of applying to this context, as a lot of it is still unclear to me. Gryllida (talk) 03:52, 16 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- This point appears to have been based on the narrow audience the script would get, the helpers, and redundancy of a new on-by-default gadget for such purpose. After discussion that follows in a next section, we agreed everyone (including helpees in particular) would need it, and the idea would not be obviously bad. Gryllida (talk) 10:28, 19 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Existing example

The existing gadget I linked works by doing things for you. (This point is experimentally true). It is unclear, at least to me, how it works, and whether it is a good idea to do the same here. Gryllida (talk) 03:52, 16 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Okay, Gryllida, I did some testing and reconnaissance on the template that you linked. What I found is the link, although it has a fall-back to the edit page and instructions on what to do, does actually do it for you. This is how Bawolff made it do it the way it does:

n:MediaWiki:Common.js calls this on by default JavaScript:

/****
function to automate removing {{tl|develop}} and adding {{tl|review}}
Apparently people actually have problems with this.
 
Also removes {{tl|tasks}}
 
maintainers: [[user:Bawolff]]
 
****/
addOnloadHook(function () {
    var changeDevelopToReviewButton = document.getElementById('develop_to_review_link');
    if (changeDevelopToReviewButton) {
        try {
            //in a try since this makes some assumptions about the format of
            //the {{tl|develop}} template, which could change.
            importScript('User:Bawolff/mwapilib2.js');
            var button = document.createElement('button');
            button.type = 'button';
            button.appendChild(changeDevelopToReviewButton.firstChild.firstChild);
            changeDevelopToReviewButton.replaceChild(button, changeDevelopToReviewButton.firstChild);
            button.onclick = function () {
                this.disabled = true;
                if (this && this.firstChild && this.firstChild.firstChild && this.firstChild.firstChild.data) this.firstChild.firstChild.data = "Loading...";
                api(wgPageName).getPage().
                    push().
                    setDefaultSummary("Please review this article. (moved using js via button)").
                    lift( function( input ) { return !input.match( /\{\{[Rr]eview\}\}/ ); }).
                    abortIfFalse().
                    pop().
                    replace(/\{\{(?:[dD]evelop(?:ing|ment)?|[dD]raft|[tT]asks)(?:\|[^}]*)?\}\}/g, "").
                    replace(/^/, "\{\{review}}\n").
                    savePage().
                    lift(function () {
                        alert("The article is now listed as needing review.");
                        location.reload();
                    }).
                    exec();
            }
        }
        catch (e) {}
    }
});

Other things related to it of interest are Wikinews:Javascript#{{develop}} → {{review}} and n:User:Bawolff/mwapilib.js. What this means is that the function that makes that button work is very much like an on by default gadget, which I think it would be best to avoid, at least at this time. Technical 13 (talk) 12:20, 16 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

yeah, that script predates on-by-default gadgets being cool (or existing). Bawolff (talk) 19:24, 16 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you both. I think that doing it this way here is worse than using an on-by-default gadget, as taking various functionality out of a single file is more maintainable. Would you agree? Gryllida (talk) 23:05, 16 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry, I don't exactly understand the wording of your question. I'm going to make a guess here and you can tell me if I'm right or wrong and if I'm wrong, try to explain what I guessed wrong for me. Is it worse to make this kind of tool a requirement for all users than it is to offer it as an on-by-default gadget that they could turn off if they desired? If that is the question, then the short answer is yes; however, I don't think that either of those options is appropriate for this kind of tool at this time. Technical 13 (talk) 12:05, 17 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Work in progress

There is work in progress on new script. It is unclear to me what shape it takes. Is it a user script? (I believe this is where agreement is almost reached: yes it is, and it also is possible to make an on by default gadget but undesirable). Gryllida (talk) 03:52, 16 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- After reading next section, I will assume yes for this one, and ask further questions there. Gryllida (talk) 05:39, 16 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Helper script

Hey guys! Not sure how many people actually watch this page, but I'm going to give a notice here anyways! I've started development on a userscript (maybe a gadget in the future) that creates a toolbox to make it easier for us to respond to {{Help Me!}} requests.

In this toolbox is a series of links (maybe buttons in the future) that will allow us to change the status/template of a request with a single click where appropriate. Others where it isn't appropriate for a single click, like -ns or -helped will offer a popup box to gather a little information from you and then submit it to the page without the need to wait for the edit page to load up.

You can check out the script, currently at User:Technical 13/SandBox/help-helper-tools.js and the testcases page (which I encourage you to add use cases I may have missed) is at User talk:Technical 13/SandBox/help-helper-tools. Once I have the initial script set up so that all of the features 'work' somewhat, I'll post again asking for some alpha testers and probably upload it to a new GitHub repository to allow other scripters interested in helping to collaborate on the project.

Thanks! Technical 13 (talk) 13:27, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. How essential do you feel is access to these function for helpees? (1) reopen a closed request (2) cancel an existing active helpme query. Gryllida (talk) 05:39, 16 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure I understand your question. ~~Those particular functions are planned to be in the script already for the most part.~~ The only thing the script will be unable to handle (at least as I expect it) is changing substituted templates (like -ns · -nq · -na) back to something not substituted, but that may change if the community agrees that it is a good idea. Technical 13 (talk) 12:25, 16 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think we agree this is essential for helpees to get access to these functions by default. Is my understanding correct? Gryllida (talk) 23:01, 16 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ahhh!!! Now I get what you are asking. That is certainly an option I would be willing to add once the initial "helper" side of the script is complete and fully functional. Once this feature you suggest is added, it would make this a worthy candidate for an on-by-default gadget. Technical 13 (talk) 12:47, 17 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wonderful. Thank you. :-)

(You don't need to credit me for breaking the thought process in small pieces, gradually, to reach understanding; it was invented by other better people some long time ago.) Gryllida (talk) 10:24, 19 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Request for Comments: `c:` link prefix for Wikimedia Commons

There is a cross-wiki discussion in progress as to whether c: should be enabled globally as an interwiki prefix for links to the Wikimedia Commons. If the proposal gains consensus this will require the deletion or renaming of several pages on the English WIkipedia whose titles begin with "C:", including one or more redirects to this page. Please take a moment to participate in the discussion.
There is also a related discussion on the English Wikipedia at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2014 February 16#C:ATT to which you are invited to contribute.
Thank you. Thryduulf (talk) 15:34, 1 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think c: should be considered as a interwiki prefix. Vibrantone1 (talk) 09:48, 3 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Users rarely listed, IRC chan

Script

Name Change?

I created a userbox

Categorize further

Helpers Space

[irc://irc.freenode.net/wikipedia-en-help #wikipedia-en-help]

i need help

Instructions for new volunteers

Lupin

Refresh button

Workflow

Workflow change

Support

Oppose

Discussion

Templates change

Support

Oppose

Discussion

On by default

Existing example

Work in progress

Helper script

Request for Comments: c: link prefix for Wikimedia Commons

Request for Comments: `c:` link prefix for Wikimedia Commons