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@Srnec: Can you explain to me how Galician-Portuguese troubadours are not troubadours. Because you're removed the category several times. They may be a specific flavor of troubadour, but removal of them from obvious parent tree is unhelpful for navigation. Several people have added it back. Mason (talk) 23:43, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Troubadours defines itself as Medieval performers; male composers of Old Occitan lyric poetry, which aligns with the troubadour article: a composer and performer of Old Occitan lyric poetry during the High Middle Ages. As such Category:Troubadours is in Category:Occitan-language poets. Galician-Portuguese troubadours are not Occitan-language poets. They are not "troubadours" in the sense given at either the main category or the main article. All the major medieval vernacular lyric poetic traditions have special names (troubadour, trouvère, Minnesinger) except the Galician-Portuguese one. Neither trouvères nor Minnesingers are in Category:Troubadours. Srnec (talk) 00:51, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate you explaining the nuances. It sounds like we're getting into linguistic semantics that are obviously important for the content. However, Categories don't have to be fully diffusing. Category:Occitan-language poets. doesn't have to preclude Galician-Portuguese troubadours. Is there a compromise that you're willing to live with that will leave the literal category in the tree. I'm happy to have it demarked in some way, similar to how Category:Trobairitz is included? Mason (talk) 01:00, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For trobairitz, we could simply remove "male" from the category description. But I don't see why Galician-Portuguese troubadours should be in the category tree when Category:Minnesingers is not. The mere presence of the word 'troubadour' does not seem like enough to me. The appropriate category for troubadours, trouvères, Minnesingers and Galician-Portuguese trovadores (among others) would be Category:Medieval vernacular lyric poets or something like that. Srnec (talk) 01:21, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'd be fine with adding Category:Minnesingers to the tree. However, I'm using Category:Trobairitz as an example of how the category nesting can be implemented, not asking how to fix Trobairitz. My concern is navigation, not content. Adding another parent isn't helpful as it makes navigation more difficult, which is the same current problem. " Is there a compromise that you're willing to live with that will leave the literal category in the tree. " For example Category:Trobairitz has "+" added to the sort key, would something like that be acceptable to you? Mason (talk) 01:47, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If we need another level, we need another level. I'd be happy to nix the "nationality" level if you want to keep the number of levels the same. It isn't as if we have it for the Minnesingers, trouvères or G-P trovadores. Srnec (talk) 03:56, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can you please can you please answer the question I have asked? This isn't about the number of levels, it's about keeping the parents connected. Mason (talk) 04:33, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Troubadours" is not a parent of "Galician-Portuguese troubadours". Does that answer your question? There is no compromise I can accept that leaves non-Occitan-language poets in the category tree of "troubadours". Srnec (talk) 06:23, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It does answer my question, but I think that you're being inflexible. People expect to see non-Occitan-language troubadours in the troubadour category. I understand that it isn't a perfect match, but for the sake of navigation, it's extremely difficult to isolate people from the same practical vocation based on language, when the main category doesn't have a language qualifier. Mason (talk) 17:11, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
