Category talk:Dissident Roman Catholic theologians

Roman

We are adding Roman here too? Dominick ^(TALK) 20:31, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

TSP assures me there is such a thing as a "Catholic theologian," "Catholic" not refering to his church but his specialty in theology--something like a "liberation theologian."

Of course one must add the adjective "roman" here. One knows that Roman's consider themselves the only "Catholics." Having said that, one should keep in mind that Romans burn their disedents at the stake -- steak--! Other Catholics -- Anglican and such -- throw empty chamber pots at each other. Choose your odor.

The pronouncements go directly to the heart of the matter: Hair splitting and double talk. One learns these habits in the hyperscholastic environment of a seminary.

Richard McBrien

Fr. McBrien doesn't meet the defining criteria for this category, so either the definition of "Dissident Roman Catholic theologian" needs to be extended, or Fr. McBrien needs to be removed from this list. Fr. McBrien's work Catholicism received unfavorable reviews from the USCCB, but these reviews did not constitute a censure or any other kind of disciplinary action against Fr. McBrien himself.

The category definition seems to me to already be very broad, so my vote is to take Fr. McBrien off of this list. -- Cat Whisperer 16:33, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

If his book was banned from Catholic schools by the Conference of Bishops, I think that reasonably counts as a "disciplin[ary]" measure taken by a Conference of Bishops, thereby satisfying the definition. But if we can't find any proof that the book was so banned, then I agree we should either remove McBrien or broaden the definition. --Hyphen5 20:55, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Here are the exact words from the USCCB review:

“ This review provides an outline of the major difficulties that the book poses from the standpoint of those who are concerned to monitor the possible effects of the book, not on theological specialists, but on theological beginners, the vast majority of the people of God in every age. Insofar as Catholicism is a work of speculative theology, professional theologians may evaluate it; insofar as the book is an introductory textbook of Catholic theology, it has certain shortcomings from the pastoral point of view that will be examined in this review. ”

From a news article about this review:

“ Dominican Fr. J.A. DiNoia, executive director of the doctrinal committee, said the book's censure for use in certain contexts did not amount to an outright ban. "We don't have prohibited books," he said. "The bishops are just raising concerns about this book."

He added that censure of Catholicism was not a negative judgment against McBrien's credentials as a theologian in good standing. "This definitely should not be viewed as an action against him as a theologian," DiNoia said.

”

The last paragraph of Fr. DiNoia's comments explains the distinction that I was trying to make. (I've edited my previous comments above slightly to better reflect this.) If this kind of action is sufficient to warrent inclusion in the list of Dissident Roman Catholic theologians, then the definition should read: "This is a listing of (Roman) Catholic theologians or formerly Catholic theologians who have been publically disciplined, or have had their theological works censured, by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith or by a bishop or Conference of Bishops." -- Cat Whisperer 22:29, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I like your revised definition, but I would re-word it to read, "...publicly disciplined, or whose theological works have been censured, by the...". I would say just take McBrien off the list, but this kind of review and censure is quite unusual for a Conference of Bishops. Given that, I think, on balance, it seems he can be fairly considered a "dissident theologian". (Also, this article mentions that the Australian Conference of Bishops has restricted the use of McBrien's book in its own dioceses.) --Hyphen5 23:45, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing my spelling and grammar. I'm happy to go with the revised definition, and keep Fr. McBrien on this list. -- Cat Whisperer 01:14, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

SSPX bishops

I think it's inappropriate to list the SSPX bishops in here because they are not theologians in the true sense of the word, i.e. they are maybe dissident pastors or ministers, but they don't really do the type of academic work that most theologians do. On the other hand, someone like Leonard Feeney probably does deserve to be included because he was actually employed by the Church as a Jesuit theologian. I would also argue that there needs to be a proper distinction betweem excommunicated and dissident : most dissident theologians don't get excommunicated because they often refuse to speak openly about their views, and usually try to align themselves with broader socio-cultural movements such as the spirit of Vatican II. ADM (talk) 05:12, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Defining "Dissident Roman Catholic theologians"

I have been removing certain entries from this category, namely people who were not explicitly censured by the DDF or another analogous authority. There's a decent number of these people who are not even theologians in the first place and/or even if they may have personally held heterodox views were not censured for them. Even some of the censured figures like Marcel Lefebvre I'm not sure qualify as "dissident theologians" simply because they aren't theologians—a bishop can commit schism or teach something wrong or dumb without being a dissident theologian in the sense of being a theologian censured by ecclesiastical authority. M.A.Spinn (talk) 03:09, 4 October 2024 (UTC)