User talk:NotThatAnonymous

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Usertalk pages are different than article talk pages. Per WP:OWNTALK, "users may freely remove comments from their own talk pages." Continually reverting Ss112's talk page borders on harassment. They are not doing anything against policy. Justeditingtoday (talk) 13:13, 30 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I’m aware. I read the wrong section of the policy and misunderstood it, so I apologize for that. I still think that editing one’s user talk page to cover up the fact that you were wrong is a bit discourteous (especially when he only removed my last comment, rather than the entire section), but that’s none of my business.
―PapíDimmi (talk | contribs) 13:20, 30 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Nonsense at MOS

You've been warned before [1]. You don't know what you're doing. Now cut it out. E Eng 14:29, 30 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@EEng: I am fully aware of what I’m doing. An en dash is not used like that.

This is not correct: “I would like a hamburger – but please, no cheese.” An em dash—with no spaces—should be used there. A comma or parentheses can also be used.

You reverted all my changes without even explaining why. Please explain yourself.

Em dash: “Remember—and always keep in mind—you don’t need to be rude.”
En dash: “I love the years 1999–2002.”
Hyphen: “I’ve received many e-mails.”
―PapíDimmi (talk | contribs) 14:36, 30 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A few months ago you were saying dashes shouldn't be used at all. Now you're on a tear about only mdashes being OK. I'm not here to explain basic English to you. Given your track record, in future if you think something in MOS should be changed I strongly suggest that you raise the suggestion at Talk:MOS and get consensus; otherwise you risk a subsantial block. E Eng 14:49, 30 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@EEng: No, I said that em dashes shouldn’t be used for emphasis. I wasn’t familiar with the use of em dashes when emphasizing, as I hadn’t seen it before, be it on Wikipedia or in any grammar guides. I learnt something new that day. I am not saying that only em dashes are okay like you’re saying I am. I’m changing some en dashes to semicolons because they are used incorrectly. They have different lengths and names for a reason. You wouldn’t use a comma to end a sentence, would you? You wouldn’t use an exclamation mark to end a question, would you? (By the way, they’re called em dashes, not mdashes.)

You reverted the following: Changing several hyphens to en dashes, adding a sentence to clarify the meaning of a guideline, changing the use of “However” starting sentences, and some minor rephrasing.

Like I’ve explained, en dashes cannot be used like this. Using en dashes like they’re used in the MOS is objectively incorrect. I recommend you read this guide on en dashes and this guide on em dashes. Em dashes and en dashes are not “basic English.” Most people have no idea what they are. Many use hyphens instead of em dashes (—), en dashes (–), and minus signs (−). Using an en dash instead of a semicolon or em dash is incorrect and should be changed.

Also, “However” shouldn’t start a sentence unless the definition is “in whatever way; regardless of how.” That is informal. Reverting my edits without explaining why is presumptuous. I’m trying to improve the pages which I edit, and if I’m doing something wrong, please tell me. What you’re doing is reverting edits that are perfectly fine without explaining why, because you do not want to “explain basic English to [me].” I really don’t want to edit war, but please either undo your revision or explain why my revision was wrong.

Editing the MOS is perfectly fine when you’re just making minor changes like I did. I have absolutely no will to argue, but when you’re reverting my revisions willy-nilly without a reason, I get frustrated. Instead of saying “Ugh, stop editing this page. I’m right; you’re wrong. End of discussion,” you can actually elaborate on why my revision was incorrect (which it’s not).
―PapíDimmi (talk | contribs) 14:57, 30 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Pap, your theories about dash usage, italics, and such appear to out of step with wikipedia style. While there's no requirement to follow WP:MOS in WP-space pages, it would be better all around if you would just not mess with that stuff; converting to your own personal style is not likely to sit well with the a lot of us, so you'll just get frustrated trying. Dicklyon (talk) 16:11, 30 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Dicklyon: It is not my “personal style.” I changed some instances where em dashes were used, and they weren’t wrong; however, I do think that using a semicolon when it fits is better than using an em dash, since em dashes are so versatile.

Em dashes, en dashes, and hyphens are used for different things. You can’t mix them willy-nilly. They are different punctuation marks.

If what I’m doing isn’t against the policies, why are you reverting my revisions? What I’m doing is improving the articles by using proper grammar and punctuation marks. I am following the rules of English grammar and WP:MOS, not my personal style.
―PapíDimmi (talk | contribs) 16:15, 30 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Right, it's not against policy to make bold edits; but per WP:BRD, if you get reverted you shouldn't just do it again as you keep doing. The point is that you have a preference for certain punctuation marks where your preference is not shared by others. You've got 3 editors reverting you and nobody supporting you. You can start a discussion on the talk page of the WP page, to explain why your way is better, and see if anyone supports it. Lacking that, it seems you're just injecting noise. Dicklyon (talk) 16:22, 30 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Dicklyon: You’re right. If I’m making an edit that improves a page, but two people don’t like it, I should probably discuss it—which is what I’m doing right now.

When I’m fixing something that’s objectively inncorrect, however, it should not be reverted. I have made previous edits changing incorrect uses of en dashes and hyphens; and the adverb “however,” but that’s been reverted. I’ve linked to a punctuation guides about en dashes and em dashes respectively. Using en dashes like they were used goes against all rules of the English language. Am I not allowed to fix that? Should I start a discussion before I fix a typo or a template error, for example?
―PapíDimmi (talk | contribs) 16:26, 30 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Most people, no, but in your case yes, because experience shows that you're often wrong about what's an error, despite how certain you are. There are plenty of erroneous and overprescriptive style guides around, and do you really imagine that the literally hundreds of editors who have developed MOS are mistaken on such fundamental points? E Eng 17:09, 30 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@EEng: Often? I was wrong once, and when I was wrong, it was about something that I had never heard of before. Using em dashes for emphasis isn’t in any grammar or style guide I’ve ever read. I have never seen people use em dashes like that before. I’m not even sure if it’s correct or common. That said, I made a mistake. Does that mean that I’m a horrible person who loses his rights to edit Wikipedia pages? No. You should be able to move on.

Also, you’re right about the fact that hundreds of editors have developed and expanded Wikipedia’s Manual of Style, but I’m not talking about the guidelines; I’m talking about a few simple punctuation errors. Someone accidentally used an en dash instead of an em dash. You realize that they’re very similar, right? I mistook the en dash for an em dash at first. It was probably one person who made that mistake, and then the others who edited the MOS didn’t notice it or care.

Google “en dash.” Hell, read the Wikipedia article about it. Are they used like semicolons? No. Are they used like commas? No. Are they used like parantheses? No. That’s the em dash. I am so confused as to why you’re not letting me fix minor mistakes when I’ve explained countless times why the use of these punctuation marks are incorrect.
―PapíDimmi (talk | contribs) 17:18, 30 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

For crying out loud, how about if you read the Wikipedia article about it? E Eng 17:30, 30 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]