Wikipedia:Pending changes/Request for Comment February 2011

Proposal

The Pending Changes trial ended many months ago, but around 1000 articles are still using PC protection. It is proposed to remove pending changes protection from all articles, for now, with no prejudice against reinstating it in the future, in some form, based upon consensus and discussion.

• This proposal does not affect potential future use of Pending Changes; it is only to end the trial. It does not affect the ability to apply pending changes for testing purposes, to a few non-article pages. e.g. Wikipedia:Pending changes/Testing, its sub-pages and user sub-pages that the user requests it for.
• Discussion of whether and how we want to use Pending Changes in the medium and long term are being overshadowed by a lack of consensus on what to do with Pending Changes in the short term. This RfC is an attempt to reach a consensus on that short-term issue.

Please indicate support or oppose with brief reasoning in the comments section. Comments longer than 1000 characters, responses to the comments of others and general discussion of the topic should go in the discussion section.

Comments

Support

1. Support. By removing the current articles from pending changes, we will be able to focus our discussions and move the process forward faster and with less conflict. Any new trial would likely be on different articles anyway. The default should be to return the articles to their protection status before the start of the trial. —UncleDouggie (talk) 07:41, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
2. support while there are individuals who oppose PC for reasons of openness, many of the heated discussions I read centered around the fact that the trial period had ended, yet the trial continued. With this out of the way we can work on the other questions like how to improve it, reviewer responsibilities, and how to select articles for the next trial. Cliff (talk) 08:08, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
3. I support the continuation of pending changes in the longer term. However, it is clear that many editors consider the refusal to end the trial on the date promised as a breach of trust, and that this is harming the longer term discussion. Therefore, as an interim measure I support removing PC from all articles. —WFC— 09:00, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
4. Support - we agreed to a 2-month trial; it has stayed on for eight. A 'straw poll' supported (60%) temporary continuation with a drop-dead date of December 2010. Why on Earth is this still on, with no consensus? To move forwards - to have any meaningful discussion - we must first clear the air. The use of PC right now makes a mockery of the Wikipedian ethos of consensus.  Chzz  ►  09:17, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
5. Support - As I've said in past arguments, simply to clear the air. The discussions are currently going nowhere because it's impossible to assume good faith when a past assurance continues not to be honored (i.e. begs the question: How can we trust you to honor the results of discussions if you're not honoring the results of a previous one?). From what I can see, it will be reinstated soon enough (assuming no major problems are found with it), with usage guidelines, scope, and implementation more reflective of actual consensus. Obsidi♠n^Soul 10:19, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose I say keep the pending changes on the articles they're on. It appears to be doing no harm, indeed even helping on them. Now we've seen pending changes working, removing them seems like a step backwards. (NB, this isn't a strong objection - I just don't see the point in removing them) Worm^TT · (talk) 10:08, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Discussion

Wikimedia Foundation issue

There previously was concern that if we stopped using PC, the WMF would not permit us to later restart it. Steven Walling from the WMF has recently made it clear that we are free to stop using PC until we make a final decision. The only restriction is that should we decide to dismantle the infrastructure for PC, the foundation will not set it back up again. There is no need to be so drastic. The trial can be ended by merely removing PC from all articles. —UncleDouggie (talk) 07:50, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

No big deal

I want to emphasize that, I think PC has the potential to be a useful tool, a useful addition to our toolbox. But to sort out this mess, we need to remove it for now; we need to take a step back, so we can move forwards. And to anyone who thinks this is unnecessary...OK, we can agree to disagree but - do you really strongly object to use removing it, for now?

This poll really should be no big deal at all; a few hundred articles - a tiny test - brought to an end, so we can discuss things without them imposed on us.  Chzz  ►  10:01, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm on the other side of the poll, just about, but I was under the impression that this poll would help determine consensus on the articles currently under PC. I think they're no big deal to be left on, and if the community agrees with me here - we should be able to move on and leave this point alone. If it agrees that they should be removed, we should be able to remove them, move on and leave this point alone. I'll be very glad when we can leave this point alone! Worm^TT · (talk) 10:16, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

The reason that it is a big deal if the trial continues is...it makes it extremely difficult to discuss. What's the point in our discussing e.g. "can it be used only on BLPs" when - right now - it is used on gout? We need a blank slate to work with. A large portion of the community is disillusioned with the entire process - because consensus has been disregarded. I'm not interested in recriminations, I just want us to 'clear the air'.  Chzz  ►  10:19, 24 March 2011 (UTC)