Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Climbing

Talk:Cobra_Crack#MOS:ITAL

Discussion on if climbing routes should be in italics on WP. If you have an opinion, please join. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:48, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Sport climbing at the Summer Olympics

Linking a discussion here to increase participation.

Talk:Sport climbing at the Summer Olympics#Sport climbing at the Summer Olympics

Basic summery: Should grades of the climbs be listed, and if so how many/which grading system should be. Mn1548 (talk) 19:53, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Suggesting a change of WP:WikiProject Climbing/Article recommendations

Per the discussion at Talk:Cobra_Crack#MOS:ITAL, I suggest the project's Article Guidelines change from

• Route names should be italicized

to

• Per MOS:ITAL, route names should not be italicized Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 05:06, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Nobody seems to have objections, so I'd say you can just go ahead and do it! Gawaon (talk) 19:38, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

I have no problem with the names of routes not being italicised in the titles of Wikipedia articles, however, it would be a complete pain to use alternatives to using italic names in the body of articles, and it is a well-established format in many major climbing media (although not in all climbing media). Hope that would work for all. Aszx5000 (talk) 09:31, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Per the Cobra Crack discussion, I don't see the problem with treating them as any other geographical feature/road, in title or elsewhere in the article, and I don't think the general WP reader or editor does either. The currently non-ital Cobra Crack is how readers and editors in general expects such an article to look, that's my view. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:01, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

There is a reason why a lot of major climbing media italicise names, which is to avoid confusion to the reader of sentences. I didn't want to swap the Cobra Crack discussion with examples because climbers are generally over-ruled by non-climbers on climbing debates about climbing articles in Wikipedia (I have mostly given up per here). Aszx5000 (talk) 10:09, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

It's a recurring thing on WP. Whether your interest is climbing, WWII, Olympians or roads, sometimes the way you want to do stuff bumps up against the larger WP-preference. Why doesn't the Manual of Style always follow specialized practice? is on point here, I think. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:58, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

I have seen projects with bigger participation amend the MOS-type guidelines for that they consider convention in their area. I think the issue is that participation is so low in climbing that it gets overruled. Aszx5000 (talk) 11:07, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

To convince the "outsiders", I think you would need a good example that shows how ordinary type would be confusing and formatting would help the reader. Perhaps there is a route whose name is a common word? If you could give people a real example of a route with a generic sounding name like "The Mountain", which could realistically result in an extremely confusing sentence like "Alice climbed the mountain up the mountain", then non-climbers might see the need. If the routes all have names like Royal Arches Route, then there can be no such confusion. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:15, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

I gave many examples of major climbing media (including the largest climbing magazines) who use italic names for routes in their articles to avoid confusion, but they carried no weight. These media don't do for fun, they do it to help their readers. That is what we are supposed to be doing? Aszx5000 (talk) 18:28, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Maybe they do it because they think it helps their readers, maybe because they like the emphasis is gives, maybe just because some designer thought it was a neat idea or because they have thoughtlessly copied it from some other magazine that does the same. Unless there is good evidence that confusion will actually result in the absence of italics, the argument "somebody else does it" carries no weight. Gawaon (talk) 18:56, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

These are major climbing publications, and not "somebody else". Aszx5000 (talk) 19:12, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Which is "somebody else" from the POV of Wikipedia's style. See also all the debates over whether to stylize brands, such as Ke$ha. "But all the genre-specific publications do this" has not traditionally been persuasive.

What has been persuasive is evidence that not following the convention is confusing. One of the fastest ways to convince people that something is confusing is to let them personally experience the confusion themselves. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:42, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Take this example from the Cobra Crack article, before I removed the ital:

"Reporting on Didier Berthod's failed 2005 attempt, El Pais called Cobra Crack "the most difficult fissure on the planet", while Desnivel said..."

From where I'm sitting, the route-ital here is more likely to cause confusion than to avoid it. Not a lot of confusion, mainly it just looks odd. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:40, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

In that example, I agree. It makes it look like the route is a publication. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:57, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Rock-climbing equipment listed at Requested moves

A requested move discussion has been initiated for Rock-climbing equipment to be moved to Rock climbing equipment. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 15:01, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

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Unreadable text in dark mode

The background: transparent included in the styles of the unclosed table at the bottom of {{Wikipedia:WikiProject Climbing/tabsheader}} is causing the body text that follows the header to render as dark-gray-on-black text in dark mode, on the project page. That background: transparent is also unnecessary, and can be removed with no ill effects (but one significant positive effect).

I can be bold and make the necessary change to the "template" code myself, but I wanted to give project members a chance to deal with it before I went mucking with code on project pages. Please fix, or if you'd like me to do it, just say the word. FeRDNYC (talk) 19:28, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

I am not able to follow what you are saying, but I trust to you go ahead and do something sensible if the current template is flawed. thanks. Aszx5000 (talk) 09:33, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, I've made the change. Visitors to Wikipedia:WikiProject Climbing should see no differences in light mode, but in dark mode the text in the various page tabs should now be visible. FeRDNYC (talk) 21:03, 1 September 2024 (UTC)