Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ballet

Royal Opera House

Hello all,

Tim riley and I visited the Royal Opera House in London on Wednesday to talk to them about Wikipedia and run a short "how to edit" session. One of their staff (OperaBalletRose) has been expanding the articles on various operas and ballets over the past few months (mostly with synopses), and they're interested in getting more of their staff up to speed to help with this.

Alongside this, they're interested in hosting some kind of editathon event; we haven't got a firm date yet, but it'll probably be in June, and probably on a Saturday. If you might be interested in coming along to the ROH for a look behind the scenes and a chance to work with some of their collections, do get in touch - I'll let you know a firm date as soon as we've sorted it out! Andrew Gray (talk) 14:19, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Clarification needed

I posted this question at Talk:Ballet but received no answer, so I'm asking here too in the hope that someone knows the answer. I recently returned to a problem that was previously discussed but never resolved, pertaining to the definitions of Vaganova method, Cecchetti method, and Bournonville method. Since all three articles have the same issue, I'll focus on Vaganova. The lede says Vaganova method is "a ballet technique and training system", but it's not clear to me what that means. I've come up with several possible interpretations:

Vaganova method is:

1. a ballet training system used to teach generic ballet technique. A dancer would learn the same technique from any training system. The name refers only to the training system.
2. a ballet training system used to teach generic ballet technique that has some proprietary (Vaganova-specific) characteristics. A dancer would learn the same technique from any training system, except for the proprietary parts. The name refers only to the training system.
3. a ballet training system used to teach completely proprietary ballet technique. A dancer would not learn any of the same technique from any other training system, though a skilled dancer might be able to learn it by herself. The name refers only to the training system.
4. a ballet training system used to teach generic ballet technique that has some proprietary (Vaganova-specific) characteristics, and the term can also refer to the proprietary parts of the technique. A dancer would learn the same technique from any training system, except for the proprietary parts. The training system and proprietary parts of the technique share a common name.
5. a ballet training system used to teach completely proprietary ballet technique, and the term can also refer to the technique. A dancer would not learn any of the same technique from any other training system, though a skilled dancer might be able to learn it by herself. The training system and technique share a common name.
6. an inseparable "system" consisting of a ballet training system and the completely proprietary ballet technique it teaches. It's impossible to independently learn the technique or exhibit it when not training, because training and technique are inseparable. The name refers to the inseparable system.

Which of these is correct, or is it something else altogether?

Ballet dancers by gender cat names

The most pressing issue is that I just created Category:German danceurs which is an obvious misspelling. That category is being considered for renaming at CfD. I was hoping to get some comments on that and not have it speedied. If it does get speedied to German danseurs, I guess for now the discussion will have to be here, although I am thinking about proposing a rename to the parent Category:Danseurs. The issue as I see it is Danseur redirects to Ballet dancers. Under "gendered titles" it says that danseur is the French term for a male ballter dancer and gives danseuse as the French female equivalent. It then mentions ballerimo as the Italian term. It never says either term is accepted in English. It does in the next section imply that ballerina is a general term for female ballet dancers. So I see three possible ways to sort this out. 1-we could leave categories as they are. If we do this it would imply that danseur is an accepted English term, and we should say this explicitly in the ballet dancer article. I have actually found a female involved in modern dance in the danseur category, so I get the impression that not everyone understands it as a term for male ballet dancers. 2-we could rename Category:Danseurs to Category:Male ballet dancers but leave Category:Ballerinas. The theory here is that we use common names, and these are the common names in English. I am not familiar enough with ballet to say if this is true, but I would say up until about a week ago I had no clue waht was up with Category:Danseur I had seen several articles in, but I at least vaguely understood ballerinas were female ballet dancers. 3-However what I really think would work best with how people currently use terms, at least who know very little about ballet, would be to rename Category:Danseurs to Category:Male ballet dancers and rename Category:Ballerinas to Category:Female ballet dancers. This has the advantage of being clear as to who belongs in each category. In the danseurs category I am not sure it is always clear that it is limited to males or that it is limited to ballet. In the ballerinas category, I think its gender and ballet limits are more clear, the problem there is actually of a different nature. Historically ballerina is more euivalent to diva. While it seems that in common use it has come to mean female ballet dancer, the attempt to use it as such may offend purist. Also, its being limited to females may not be universally agreed upon, I am not sure on that though. Lastly, some people want us to use parrallel forms between categories, and it does help to make it clear what categories are. I have to say for now though I am not strongly inclined to any of these courses, which is why I am seeking comments on the issue.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:51, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

• My personal preference is number 3; it would be clear to any reader. Lambtron (talk) 20:04, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
• Thank you for taking to the time to lay out the issues so clearly. I support option 3. I don't believe that the term danseur is accepted in English, though ballet, being somewhat an international community, certainly has some male ballet dancers from English speaking countries that identify with the term. A quick search of New York Times articles shows they seem to only use the term within the narrower term of "danseur noble", prefering to refer to dancers by their heirarchic title, such as "soloist" or "principal dancer", and often using the term "male ballet dancer". I prefer option three over option two simply because the term ballerina seems to put women who are ballet dancers on a bit of a pedestal, but I also agree that there are more likely to be more debates over what level of diva-ness a dancer needs to earn the term which could be avoided by using the term female ballet dancer. Thanks again. Dkreisst (talk) 22:27, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Category:Danseurs

Per the above discussion I have nominated Category:Danseurs and Category:Ballerinas and most sub-cats for renaming. See the cats for links to discussionJohn Pack Lambert (talk) 23:56, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Capitalization in French language titles

It has been my understanding that titles in French (and some other languages - Italian, Spanish, etc) capitalize only the first word, even if an article, and proper names. Is this general rule not applicable to ballets? Compare the form used for operas, e.g. La traviata, etc. I tried to move Les Millions d'Arlequin to Les millions d'Arlequin, but was disallowed; and then saw that Les millions d'Arlequin redirects to the capitalized form. Coming to this ballet from Riccardo Drigo, I see there that some French titles are given in lower case, but apparently a little haphazardly. Also compare this situation to L'oiseau de feu, Le baiser de la fée, Les noces, Le sacre du printemps, Le pas d'acier (Prokofiev), etc, as some top-of-the-head picks. Milkunderwood (talk) 04:23, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Royal Opera House event - 22 June

Following up from my post a couple of months ago, I am delighted to let you know that the Royal Opera House are hosting an editathon focusing on the works of Sir Frederick Ashton, to be held on Saturday 22 June 2013. The day will provisionally include some form of behind-the-scenes tour, though we're still working on organising the details. If you're interested, please sign up now and keep the date free - it'd be great to see you there! Andrew Gray (talk) 23:53, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Template

Getting ready for the Editathon, above, I have put a request at Template talk:Infobox ballet on which I'd be grateful for project members' views. Tim riley (talk) 15:44, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

David Howard article just increased in priority...

David Howard, former Royal Ballet soloist and master instructor has passed away. Also confirmed via Dance Magazine on Twitter. I've added his name to the David Howard dismabig page, now somebody just needs to wait for the comprehensive obits to come in to create his article.

More info GreaseballNYC (talk) 20:37, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

I took the liberty of changing him from David Howard (ballet master) to David Howard (ballet teacher) (which is what he was best-known as.) — Robert Greer (talk) 21:03, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Harriet Toby

American actress and ballet dancer Harriet Toby was killed in a plane crash in 1952. Anyone up to writing an article on her? Mjroots (talk) 16:46, 28 February 2014 (UTC). How to find out more about her?

Editta Braun company - A modern dance company from Austria with international works

Hallo,

I am Sindy and I wanted to ask you for help, since I do not have many experiences with Wikipedia and I am somehow lost ...

It's concerning a site for the international working dance group "Editta Braun company" from Salzburg/Austria. In further times, I had been working with the group, that's why I know very well, how the group and the choreographer Editta Braun is working: with an international team of dancers, musicians, technicians and many others. The group is touring for years all over the world. Therefore it would be very usefull for foreign theaters and stages as well as for the English speaking audience to get some information in English about the company. Moreover the dance group had won already several international prices, which means that the company is of international interest. That is the reason - and because I like their work a lot - that I wish to create an English article in Wikipedia for the company.

There is allready a draft existing. But since there must have been once an article about that group, which had been deleted, my new articel seems to be blocked. :-(

Here you can find the article:

https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Draft:Editta_Braun_Company

A user, Anne Delong, who tried to improve the article, since she find it usefull, gave me the advice, to ask here in WikiProjectBallet for help.

Could you please help by telling me, what you think is necessary to change in the article, that it can get online?

Thank you very much for helping!

Kind regards,

Sindy

Royal Ballet Programme Offer

My name is Rachel Beaumont and I work at the Royal Opera House. We are able to offer a small number of Royal Ballet programmes from the 2014/15 Season free of charge to interested Wikipedians for research purposes, as part of our ongoing project with Wikimedia UK to help improve Wikipedia’s articles on opera and ballet. Royal Ballet programmes include cast details, a production history and several essays by leading academics and commentators. Please see below a list of available titles.

If you are interested, please get in touch via by email to rachel.beaumont at roh.org.uk with your address and which titles you would like.

We have a similar offer for Royal Opera programmes – please see here for details.

Programmes available:

• Afternoon of a Faun / In the Night / Song of the Earth
• Alice's Adventures in Wonderland
• Ceremony of Innocence / The Age of Anxiety / Aeternum
• La Fille mal gardée
• The Four Temperaments / Untouchable / Song of the Earth
• Manon
• Scènes de ballet / Five Brahms Waltzes in the Manner of Isadora Duncan / Symphonic Variations / A Month in the Country
• Woolf Works

Rachel Beaumont (talk) 17:11, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Albion's Dance: British Ballet during the Second World War (new book)

New book: Albion's Dance: British Ballet during the Second World War by Karen Eliot, 2016, Oxford University Press. Maybe useful for articles in Category:British ballerinas, a section on United Kingdom in History_of_ballet#20th_century_and_modernism, and an article for the Category:United Kingdom home front during World War II/Category:Cultural history of World War II. Jodi.a.schneider (talk) 18:48, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

Thomas Lund (dancer)

Would someone from this WikiProject take a look at Thomas Lund (dancer) and assess it? None of the article content is supported by citations to reliable sources, so it's not clear if this person meets WP:BIO. Thanks in advance. -- Marchjuly (talk) 11:35, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

American Ballet Theatre

Just a heads-up, there are a boatload of IP edits being made on American Ballet Theatre, revising dancers and their positions. They're not sourced, but neither are the items being replaced. Someone who knows this company might want to keep an eye on it. TJRC (talk) 23:18, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

Cleveland Ballet ‎

Can we have some eyes on Cleveland Ballet. It's being edited by Dnahat (talk · contribs), who, judging from the username, is the man who was intimately involved with the formation and running of the both Cleveland Ballet and Ballet San Jose, and is someone I admire very much. Assuming the editor is actually who his username suggests, his additions are no doubt factually correct, but are unsupported by any WP:RS.

I've tried to let him know via his talk page, but I don't think he's seeing my comments or paying attention to them. I think his input would be valuable, but we really need citations.

If anyone has cites for the changes he's making, or might be better at getting through to him, I'd invite you to do so. He's edited Jumpers (play), for example, but I was able to find sources I could add for his edits, so I added them rather than reverting. TJRC (talk) 19:37, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Istvan Martin

Hi, just asking if anyone would like to improve this article which I've just added a WP:BLPPROD to, regards Atlantic306 (talk) 16:19, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Creating Biography regarding dancer

I am looking to write about some dancers that I have researched. If I could have the help of someone to edit my work or to look through it I would appreciate the consensus as I am new and would like that my article is of a high standard. Let me know as I am currently working on the article — Preceding unsigned comment added by DanceEnthusiast (talk • contribs) 23:31, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Rachel S. Moore at AfC - anyone a reviewer?

I submitted a draft on Rachel S. Moore that's been sitting in the queue at AfC for six weeks. She is undeniably notable, but I submitted it as a disclosed paid editor, which means it will sit and sit. Is anyone a reviewer? She is the president and CEO of the Performing Arts Center of Los Angeles County (The Music Center), which operates the Walt Disney Concert Hall, the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion, the Ahmanson Theater, the Mark Taper Forum, and Grand Park. A former ballet dancer, she was the executive director and CEO of American Ballet Theatre (ABT) from 2004 to 2015. Thanks in advance. JSFarman2 (talk) 21:19, 4 June 2021 (UTC)