Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Peer review/Gilbert du Motier, Marquis de Lafayette
Greetings, I worked on this article via the SPOT and we decided to go for GA. Now that is passed, the aim is A Class and eventually FA. I feel that currently the article is in good shape, however I am sure it needs outside input. I am curious about areas the article can be expanded, issues of undue weight, and NPOV. Further, any suggestions regarding prose would be appreciate. As always, much thanks for taking the time to review. Regards, Lazulilasher (talk) 04:38, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
Roger Davies
[edit]Prose
- French National Guarde > "National Guard"
- In the lead, mention why was he imprisoned by the Austrians?
- Leaving the marquis title > "the marquessate"
- Lafayette was raised by his paternal grandmother, Madame de Chavaniac, Madeleine de Motier and Charlotte Guérin. Who are de Motier and Guérin? They probably need introducing, this will help the flow of the sentence too.
- In 1768, Lafayette's grandfather wanted the young man to travel to the Palais du Luxembourg Did he go? Was he introduced?
- 1 million livres > "one million livres"?
- bought the cargo to avoid the islands > "bought the cargo to avoid docking"?
- Upon arrival > "On arrival" (less literary?)
- in the "Conflict and imprisonment" section, Georges appears to go to the U.S. twice. (He's also referred to as "George" in the "Death" paragraph.)
References
- Consider truncating the citations (ie "Holbrook, Lafayette, Man in the Middle, pages 67–68" to "Holbrook, pp 67–68"). The full titles are given below anyway.
- Consider using refname function so that multiple references can be made to the same page. These appear thus: "^ a b c Holbrook, p. 13."
Overall
- Excellent work. Well done, --ROGER DAVIES talk 11:59, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
- Thank you much for your suggestions, all of which (with the exception of one) have been incorporated into the article. I have a question about the 3rd. What do you mean by the marquis portion? Should marquis be styled marquessate? Again, thanks for the review! Regards, Lazulilasher (talk) 18:40, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
- What I meant was the family title could be referred to as the "marquessate" (in the same way as a king's fief is called a kingdom}. It also has the advantage of a better supporting article explaining what it is. Only a suggestion though :) --ROGER DAVIES talk 13:44, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
- You're right. It is a better article. I've linked to the marquessate article. Also, on another note, what do you think of the references now? I truncated them as much as I thought possible. Regards, Lazulilasher (talk) 16:34, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
- The refs look good, though a purist might sniff at page and pages in favor of "p." and "pp." :) --ROGER DAVIES talk 16:48, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
- Hehe...ok, I'll see what can be done. Regards, Lazulilasher (talk) 17:15, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
- The refs look good, though a purist might sniff at page and pages in favor of "p." and "pp." :) --ROGER DAVIES talk 16:48, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
- You're right. It is a better article. I've linked to the marquessate article. Also, on another note, what do you think of the references now? I truncated them as much as I thought possible. Regards, Lazulilasher (talk) 16:34, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
- What I meant was the family title could be referred to as the "marquessate" (in the same way as a king's fief is called a kingdom}. It also has the advantage of a better supporting article explaining what it is. Only a suggestion though :) --ROGER DAVIES talk 13:44, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
Pohick2
[edit]very good work
- Barren Hill - I believe assigned command of advanced guard by washington, which the british ambushed, and he slipped through the trap.
- Virginia campaign - again assigned independant command taking over from Baron Steuben, almost captured at battle of green spring, near [[1]]green spring plantation, saved by mad anthony wayne's counterattack, acted as go between at yorktown with Rochambeau
- also some mention of the differing assessment of americans and the french would be nice. user talk:Pohick2 203:01, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks much for the review. Good points, all. I will address these in the next few days. Kindest, Lazulilasher (talk) 17:14, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
thanks for cleaning this up
- Barren Hill - i believe the sequence of events is - British withdrawal from Phila to NY, Lafayette assigned advanced guard with picked men (including Washington's life guard), British get wind and send out rear guard to ambush, outflank Lafayette get between him and main body at Valley Forge, Lafayette sees and recovers, feints with 'heads of columns', marches via sunken road back to main body, British continue withdrawal
(complicated little skirmish)
- Ya, from what I read you're correct. Lafayette was sent by Washington with 2,200 men to reconnoiter. Howe was recalled, and had a large party on 18 May. The next day, he heard that Lafayette had made camp nearby. Howe sent 5,000 men that day, and himself led a further 6,000 the following day. General Potter was unable to protect Lafayette's left flank, but the British force waited for reinforcements, enabling Lafayette to escape (feints, etc) Lazulilasher (talk) 17:53, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
- Battle of Green Spring more of a skirmish than battle, reminiscent of Barren Hill, hmm, i seem to recall that Lafayette was with the advanced guard, got ambushed, and Wayne attacked to keep him from being captured, unlike what the article says, but i will look up my sources Pohick2 (talk) 20:35, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
- Yep. Lafayette was with the advanced guard when Wayne led the bayonet charge. After the attack, Lafayette ordered the retreat. Lazulilasher (talk) 22:36, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
- Ok, thanks much for brining these things up. I'm away until late tomorrow, but will start into these soon. Lazulilasher (talk) 23:22, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
- good job incorporating changes, the Barren Hill is hard to condense the action, i might add something about the British stategic move from Phila to NYC - both actions do give a flavor for Lafayette's bravery, and independant command (minor military history); Virginia campaign shows Fabian strategy learned from Washington, but Richmond was burned, Tarleton chased Jefferson, etc.
- Oh, i don't know if cornwallis was preparing port, or waiting to get shipped to NYC from Yorktown (it was an existing tobacco port) Pohick2 (talk) 00:37, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks. During the original rewrite, I skimmed over Barren Hill because I was concerned about space. But, I'm glad that you mentioned it, because I think it demonstrates Lafayette's reaction to a numerically superior force (as he would face similar unbalanced fields throughout his career). Cornwallis had been ordered to build a deep water port at Yorktown for an eventual attack on Philadelphia-I'm sure you're correct, that there was already a port, but assumedly it wasn't outfitted for a navy of that magnitude...Lazulilasher (talk) 16:09, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
- good point a lot of this was confusion of written orders far from NYC, hope you don't mind my transition from barren hill to monmouth, yes i think it good to show the proof of capability of independant command (unlike Gates) although a little reckless that seems a character trait
- Thanks. During the original rewrite, I skimmed over Barren Hill because I was concerned about space. But, I'm glad that you mentioned it, because I think it demonstrates Lafayette's reaction to a numerically superior force (as he would face similar unbalanced fields throughout his career). Cornwallis had been ordered to build a deep water port at Yorktown for an eventual attack on Philadelphia-I'm sure you're correct, that there was already a port, but assumedly it wasn't outfitted for a navy of that magnitude...Lazulilasher (talk) 16:09, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
- Gates remind me of Lafayette's role in exposing the Conway cabal, they trusted him, and he went right to Washington with some damning letters Pohick2 (talk) 01:32, 29 September 2008 (UTC)